Sep 2

Hierarchy of American Coachbuilders?

My question (or pondering) might have a different answer or “hierarchy“ based on era. For instance: early to mid 20’s, late 20’s to early 30’s, mid thirties to WWII……. It also might be affected by certain builders that are associated with expensive platforms (ie. Duesenberg).

What I’m wondering from some of you pre-war guys who are into high-end American Classics is was there a perceived pecking order of quality and prestige amongst American coach builders in the 20s and 30s?

Brunn, Dietrich, Waterhouse, LeBaron, Murphy, Derham, Brewster, and others. Has there been any analysis or strong opinions written by those who would know about how they stacked up against each other? Is there a recognized top coach builder or did that prize shift over the years based on era and who was leading design at each of them? I know there was also movement of talent between them so that also blurs the lines.

I’m curious as to what others have heard and thought.

Sep 2, 2026

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Replies (19)

· Sep 2

John,  I cut it two ways.   Quality and then styling.

Quality:

1.  Brewster
2. Brunn
3.  Fleetwood

Styling:

1.  Dietrich
2. Rollston
3.  Waterhouse
4.  Murphy
5.   Derham

· Sep 2

Interesting, I feel like everything I’ve ever seen done by Dietrich or Waterhouse, I fall in love with. Your comments about quality are worth thinking about this a little harder. You wonder if some of the examples they built, stood the test of time where others fell apart quickly.

· Sep 2

Brunn built fantastic bodies but they were not exactly setting the world on fire with style, for the most part. Brewster could do both. The construction quality was off the charts for Brewster which was putting 90% of their bodies on cars that were selling for 20k dollars when you could buy a Duesenberg for 11.

· Sep 2

I should point out that all of the coachbuilders were a cut above (or higher) the production bodies. Even a builder like Murphy or Derham would be bodies with 5x time detail and quality of a high end production body.

· Sep 2

Big fan of Rollston and Waterhouse as I love the victoria body style. Perfect proportions on those bodies especially on the 745 and 845 Packards.

· Sep 2

Bill. Here is your opportunity. This is a good car that just needs love.

https://rmsothebys.com/auctions/hf26/lots/r0105-1931-packard-845-deluxe-eight-convertible-victoria-by-rollston/

(edited)

· Sep 2

Man is that a good looking car. A keep forever car.

· Sep 2

I know that car, I've worked on it. It's a great car, just an older restoration.

· Sep 2

Yes you do! I may bid on the Royale if I get drunk. Although the more I look at the photos the less inclined I am. The Rollston is a good car it just needs some love.

· Sep 2

Love it! Thanks AJ.

· Sep 2

That Packard is awesome.

· Sep 2

At some point AI will kill us all, but in the meantime it sure makes it easy to fix a car.

· Sep 2

It sure is. I’ve been playing around with it a little bit to change the color and contemplate what direction I want to go with a car. Very quickly it evolved into other areas.   I spent last night adding Cupolas to the roof line of my house! I suppose it’s good for the economy because when you see things that could be done and want them, the next step is to act on it and pull out your wallet.

I’d be interested in hearing people  the thoughts and opinion from people that paint for a profession on these cars.  Is it increasing their business? Is it a useful tool to help clients? Is it a curse setting unrealistic expectations for clients?

· Sep 2

I realize this analysis can get tainted by some builders who had a closer relationship with specific makes. For instance, Lincoln maybe had a strong relationship with a coach builder that Cadillac didn’t have. Or perhaps Brewster aligned with Springfield Rolls Royce more than other builders did….. any analysis will have imperfections, but I’m wondering if there was some consensus amongst the masses for how they stacked up against each other.

· Sep 2

Excellent point. Brewster got to build expensive bodies for very expensive cars. But if you are building for a less expensive price point you are going to have to get the cost down. Need to think about who really got tainted by this effect.

· Sep 2

It would be interesting to go back in time and eavesdrop in the C Suite and boardrooms of Rolls-Royce, Duesenberg , Pierce, Arrow, Packard, Cadillac, Lincoln, etc… and when they felt safe speaking freely, hear what their thoughts were about the different coach builders, taking their chassis and turning it into something else.

· Sep 2

They were probably making business decisions as opposed to the way we look at it now based on our hearts as collectors.

· Sep 2

With this thread, having both coach building and AI concepts on it. I asked three quick questions and AI instantly gave me answers, perhaps the accuracy is suspect (hello Randy Ema), but my guess is there’s some semblance accuracy of who was doing the most coach building on an iconic model.

1 / 3

· Sep 2

John, I think the exact number is known. Not by me, but certainly by Randy. That number probably is 1/2 of all the bodies built by Murphy in total over a short 5 year production run.