1942-47 senior Packard Clipper parts

Peter, we realize you were an attorney, and being retired, perhaps you miss the adversarial exchange practiced before the bar. But in your zeal to play gotcha, did you bother to read, slowly, carefully, fully, my complete ad? I never said what you claimed, above. What part of "....hoods, 1941 and 1942-47 seniors" don't you underderstand? That the cat whiskers i have left are for junior not senior Clippers underscores that these cars use different front clips. As for your not being "aware" that Packard produced short-wheelbase junior Clippers before the war, this may come as surprise to those owning such 1942 models. Peter, y [color:"black"] ou know i own a senior Clipper. But you ask if i'm "aware" of its engine. Monsignor Hartmann, if it's all the same, i'll stick with the information in the 1941-47 Packard Clipper Master Parts Book published by the Packard Motor Car Company, Detroit, Michigan.

Should i have need of arcane information on 1938-39 Packard Twelves, be "assured" you'd be one of the first 100 gentlemen i'd defer to. Meanwhile, ginkgo biloba and coenzyme Q-10 help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With ONE qualification - most pre-war Clippers had the small "120" engines, but DID have the "big" hood and "big" fenders that were used on the "Senior" Packards after the war. I do not recall ANY pre-war Clippers coming out of the factory with the "short" hoods and fenders. </div></div>

Not to get in the middle of a "discussion," but there are TWO existing 1942 Packard Clippers with the 180 engine, one is a light green metallic (former Harrah car), and the other is maroon.

Sorry to interupt also but to my knowledge the 1941 Packard Clipper was not viewed as a "junior" car or at least as a low or middle priced car. It was priced just under that of a Cadillac Model at $1420. All 1941 Clippers were of the long 127" wheelbase size. The Clipper Six and Eight model of 1942 were of the shorter hood version on the 122" wheelbase while the One Sixty and One Eighty Clippers were still on the 127" chassis but now with the 356" engine so I suppose you could say that there were "junior" and "senior" Clippers in the 1942 lineup. I think that the confusing thing about the 41 and subsequent Packards is that the price variance between the least costly and most expensive models was not as wide as it had been in the 1930's when the 120 was introduced so Junior and Senior designations was a bit of an anachronism by 1941.

Though i posted on this forum strictly to sell some parts, Dave brings up an interesting and always overlooked point: The 1941 Packard Clipper was neither junior nor senior, but a free-standing line. Packard could see there was more volume and profit in the upper-medium, sub-luxury class and aimed the new Clipper in the midst of some sophisticated, upscale road cars; a few dollars more than Buick's Roadmaster, Chrysler's New Yorker, just under the LaSalle-replacing Cadillac Series 61 and standard bearer Series 62, and Lincoln.

Despite its crisp styling, originally intended for the '37 LaSalle, the formal, sedan-only 1938-41 60 Special Fleetwood had accounted for just six percent of Cadillac's sales, so Packard wanted something a little less high hat, sportier, sleeker as Clipper sales success proved.

The Clipper had become more of a necessity when GM's racy new C bodies arrived for the mid-1940 model year. Those, and HydraMatic, a convenience item which does nothing for a road car, nonetheless lend gravity to Dutch Darrin's observation, "Packard was so scared of GM they couldn't see straight."

The only thing junior about Packard's new car was its high-compression version of the existing 282-ci One-Twenty engine. The Clipper used the same 127" wheelbase as the old-bodied One-Twenty, One-Sixty, One-Eighty standard models, probably to cut tooling/production jig costs, despite an entirely new frame and chassis.

The 1942-47 senior Clipper retained the '41 car's wheelbase, but used Packard's biggest engine, the industry's most powerful in torque, 356-ci, nine mains, hydraulic lifters. Spurred by Buick's compound-carbed, 7.0:1 compression, babbitt-bearinged 1941-42 320-ci engine's advertised hp, Packard boosted the 356's compression from 6.41 to 6.85:1 for 1942-47. If GM Proving Grounds dynamometer tests of 31 new competitive cars are to be believed, the 1940 Packard 160 pumped out a true 131 hp, the '40 Roadmaster 130, an advertised overstatement of 22.10 vs. Buick's 8.46 percent. So the 1941-42 twin-carb Buick 320 may've given the senior Packard a run for its money. Aftermarket Edmunds twin-carb manifolds seriously increased the 356's hp, making more of an apples with apples comparison, but Buick's Compound Carburetion fouled plugs, guzzled gas, and worst of all, upstaged Cadillac, so didn't return for '46.

The two fastest cars off a showroom floor 'til the ohv '49 Cad and '51 Chrysler hemi V-8s were certainly the 1942-47 senior Packard Clippers with overdrive and the 1941-42 Buick Century/Roadmaster but only with the rare, no-cost, optional 3.6:1 rear axle instead of Flint's standard 3.9 cog. Given the Packard's finer bearings, longer legs in overdrive, and chassis stability, the senior Clippers would've been a more relaxing proposition trying to beat the 20th Century Limited or Southern Pacific Daylight.

While all traditional, old-bodied Packards from 1939-on other than the final 446 '39 Twelves were junior based, you could argue that the 1942-47 senior Clippers are "more senior," being based on the 1941 Clipper, itself priced squarely between the 1941 old-bodied One-Twenty and One-Sixty.

I don't know that more than two of the roughly 100 '42 180 Clippers built before all auto production ceased in Feb.,'42 are accounted for. Packard produced more '42 One-Sixty Clippers, but these are nearly as rare. The war prevented '43 Clipper convertibles. The immediate postwar sellers' market precluded the need.

Packard Super-8 One-Sixty Clipper and Packard Custom Super-8 One-Eighty Clipper are a mouthful, so the postwar names were streamlined to Packard Super Clipper and Packard Custom Super Clipper. These are the same cars other than bolder center grille bars to match the side grilles, redesigned hubcaps, clunky, bolt-on bumper extensions to bulk up, look newer, a repositioned ashtray, interior trim, etc.

Junior Clippers came out for 1942, using the existing 245-ci One-Ten six-cyl. and 282-ci One-Twenty 282-ci engines in an all-new 120" wheelbase, two inches shorter than the 1941 One-Ten's 122" wb. The 1942-47 junior Clippers were seven inches shorter in their front fenders and hoods, but don't look foreshortened in the least until you see one alongside a 1941 Clipper, or 1942-47 senior Clipper. These are excellent cars and somehow look sleeker, more sophisticated than the 1949-54 R-R Silver Cloud and Bentley R-Type saloons on the same 120" wb.

I know three '47 senior Clipper owners who've all, coincidentally, at one time or another, owned S-Type Bentley Continentals. It's testimony, indeed, that each of these experienced, lifelong auto buffs compare the Detroit production car--a 1941 style with a 1940 engine-- favorably, very, with the decade-newer, vastly more expensive, limited-production English express.

The only conceivable cost-paring we can see between the senior Clippers and the old, traditional-bodied 1940-42 seniors, m i g h t be the Clipper's GM-style independent front suspension, as the long control/torque arms of Packard's unique Safe-T-fleX wouldn't clear the Clipper's lower floorpan, the same reason the R-R Silver Cloud/Bentley S series debuting autumn,'55 also dropped their faithful, bolt-for-bolt copy of Safe-t-fleX for the GM-style IFS in their new cars which look much like [color:"black"] razor-edged Clippers with modern, one-piece windshields.

An old master mechanic friend, who worked in immediate postwar Packard, Hudson and GM dealerships before starting his own garage, thought the GM IFS was "tougher" than Safe-t-fleX, but i've heard many folks say just the opposite. I've owned '40s Packards with both, so would love to hear something other than conjecture, perhaps an extract from a period SAE or other technical paper.

In my 'umble opine, the less expensive, two-door Clipper club sedans introduced in '42 look good on paper, but in person are man the harpoons bulboid, and weigh only 45-60 lbs. less than the more elegant, svelte four-door sedans. The postwar Clipper limos are too much car, and ruin the lines, but then i've always favored "road cars" on the standard wheelbases.

No '40s Packard is in the same league with Cardinal Hartmann's Olympian Twelve, but neither is any '40s Cadillac the same as the early '30s stand-alone product, all 1936-on Cadillacs downsized "juniors" sharing ever-increasing bits and pieces, entire assemblies, even bodies, with lesser GMobiles.

Sadly, people who can grasp the concept of today's 3-,5-,7-series BMW, and C-, E-, S-class Mercedes, often have difficulty wrapping their minds around Packard Six, Eight, Super-8, or 110, 120, 160/180.

But as '40s cars go, i've yet to find anything from either side of the Atlantic better, more thoroughly engineered, better built, more durable, dependable, better driving, and arguably, better-looking, than a 1941-47 Clipper, esp. the four-door sedans on the 127" wb.

Superimposing Dutch Darrin's 1940 Packard sport sedan over the Clipper vindicates Darrin's paternity claims. The long hood, raked windshield, roof and deck lines scream Darrin. But it's not surprising Packard downplayed Darrin's authorship. It must've been hard for all that Masonic, Detroit Athletic Club, boardroom ego to admit the vaunted, august Packard Motor Car Company wasn't responsible for the daring lines of its big production hit of the '40s. That honor went to a fast-track rake, an outsider.

That concludes my knowledge. Meanwhile, anyone needing parts for these sleek auld road cars, see above, please.

BRAVO!!!!!