'32 Cadillac V16 convertible coupe

I don't much care for the '32s either--I always felt that the headlights were a touch too small, like the King Bee lights on a hot rod.

That said, who the hell would kick that one out of bed for eating crackers? Certainly not I! I like the lack of sidemounts on this one, and while I do not believe double rear spares were offered, I think they would really finish the car nicely. One single little spare tire back there looks kind of bourgeois on such a car as this.

Great car.........interesting to see what it will bring.....numbers anyone? 7 figures over/under? 

This configuration was the designer's ideal: no side-mounts 'bullseye' to interrupt the flow as the eye traced the hood length and fender sweep to the windshield which then began defining the body mass.   The rakishly-mounted rear spare parallel with the sweep of the deck completes this sublime profile.

Glad my sense of this car's magnificence is widely shared!  Although maybe the better hope with any car is that everyone else hates what you love, so that no one else would ever want to buy such a horrible thing. 

Any 1932 Cadillac 16 is a fantastic car.......a convertible coupe........how can you go wrong?

Discussed on pgs. 2-3: 

I don’t think anyone guessed over $1 mil.   My guess: hammer at $540k.  $594k all in.

The seven digit  is the Roadster number.............my fault. The correct over/under number would be 600k. Sorry, I was half asleep.

If it were a 30-32, the over under would be 375k.

1935PackardDec 9, 2020

Looks much better after someone figured out how to properly install the top boot

32's are great cars but at the end of the day it is a convertible coupe which relates to a roadster as a convertible

sedan does to a phaeton. The 32 roadster has cut down doors and a sleek windshield since it does not need to deal

with the side windows. Its top also drops way down into the body when in the lowered position.

In 32 the convertible coupe was on the short wheelbase and used the standard Fisher body

unchanged from those on the v-8. In fact it is the same body as the red v-8 that started this thread. Maybe the market

is that strong on a very nice older restoration....... but that would shock me.

Johnny

A '32 V16 Roadster is also a Fisher body on the shorter of the two V16 chassis and has the same body as a V8 roadster.  I agree the sportiness of a Roadster wins every time, but I doubt there's more than a few hundred k difference given the great provenance of this convertible coupe, fantastic(older)restoration, and potentially one of two with a build sheet that matches the chassis and motor.  This is going to to be a good test.

I've been a very lucky boy and have been able to drive a couple of different 30 V16 Roadsters.  Smooth, easy to drive, don't make you look stupid trying to shift it.  But the one thing that stood out to me was the hood did not feel very long, relative to other "titan" level cars.   The 32 hood looks a little longer,  is true?

I really like this convertible coupe.

alsancleJan 3, 2021

I've been a very lucky boy and have been able to drive a couple of different 30 V16 Roadsters.  Smooth, easy to drive, don't make you look stupid trying to shift it.  But the one thing that stood out to me was the hood did not feel very long, relative to other "titan" level cars.   The 32 hood looks a little longer,  is true?

I really like this convertible coupe.

I think the Cadillac hoods are a little more "broad" than other marques, particularly Packard. My '29, for instance, doesn't seem very long to me from behind the wheel simply because it's also quite wide and relatively flat along the top. I think that contributes to the feeling that it isn't quite as long. Packards are probably the pinnacle simply because their very design makes the hood look especially long, narrow, and pointed, and therefore it appears longer. I've never been behind the wheel of something like a Duesenberg, but I have a lot of experience with the Marmon Sixteen, which also has a very long hood and it's also a bit broad and not as long-looking as a comparable large series 1932 Packard despite the fact that the Marmon's hood is nearly six feet long... 

The lack of sidemounts on this particular convertible coupe surely helps with the side view proportions.

Your Royale should totally nail the long, lean hood though. Extra long, somewhat narrow, and butted right up to the dash. I bet that's an awesome view!

I'm gonna start a thread on Classic era hood lengths.

edinmassDec 10, 2020

The seven digit  is the Roadster number.............my fault. The correct over/under number would be 600k. Sorry, I was half asleep.

If it were a 30-32, the over under would be 375k.

I wanted to quote myself because I thought I went high on this,  but it seems I must have been dreaming.   But since you were wrong I'll quote you instead. 

 Sold For $1,022,500

Well.....I did say seven figure over/under. That’s a world record price for a V-16 Conv Coupe......by a ton. I don’t care for the rear spare.......and 32’s are rare..........but seven figures is roadster money. Wonder where it went. 

Just came over here to note that sales price and you beat me to it.  Quite something.

edinmassJan 27, 2021

Well.....I did say seven figure over/under. That’s a world record price for a V-16 Conv Coupe......by a ton. I don’t care for the rear spare.......and 32’s are rare..........but seven figures is roadster money. Wonder where it went. 

7 figures is 30/31 roadster money.  You are discounting the 32 factor.  Much more attractive.

NOT a roadster.........in the 30/31 cars the price ratio is 4-1 to 6-1, and while 32's are rare......its no where near a roadster. The earlier vs later is understandable, but as a purist, and a early era collector, I prefer the first design for lines...but not the fuel system.

edinmassJan 27, 2021

NOT a roadster.........in the 30/31 cars the price ratio is 4-1 to 6-1, and while 32's are rare......its no where near a roadster. The earlier vs later is understandable, but as a purist, and a early era collector, I prefer the first design for lines...but not the fuel system.

As someone with taste,  I understand why the 32 fender line would bring a lot more money.

Btw,  I've been heavily involved in the hobby since I was 4 years old.    I was over 50 before I knew that there was a whole pack of people who wanted sidemount cars.  That was news to me.

With European cars, especially Mercedes there is almost a 2x premium for the rear mount cars.   Typically they are double vs single,  but there is a big premium.   I always assumed that was true across the board.

alsancleJan 27, 2021

Btw,  I've been heavily involved in the hobby since I was 4 years old.    I was over 50 before I knew that there was a whole pack of people who wanted sidemount cars.  That was news to me.

With European cars, especially Mercedes there is almost a 2x premium for the rear mount cars.   Typically they are double vs single,  but there is a big premium.   I always assumed that was true across the board.

alsancleJan 27, 2021

As someone with taste,  I understand why the 32 fender line would bring a lot more money.

Someone with taste??????????? You like post war cars.......nuff said!

edinmassJan 27, 2021

Someone with taste??????????? You like post war cars.......nuff said!

 
I like you too so guilty as charged.

I too was way off.  I think Fran Roxas Restoration helps. But is seems like it is 3x that of a 30-31 convertible coupe.  I was unaware of the 32s having that high a premium.  

I was always told that fisher bodies were less desirable (in the 1990s).  I guess that does not ring true in 2021.  
 

Cadillac Fan...........I agree with you.......its out of an expected normal range..........good if your selling!

I don't play in or understand that high end of the market, so a question for Ed or AJ or anyone: is the strong price preference for roadster over convertible coupe (like, I assume, a preference for phaeton over convertible sedan) rooted in the assumed awkwardness of how the car looks with the top down?  Similar to how, on a J, I gather the disappearing top cars are much more valuable?  Putting aside that I don't totally understand why that would matter all that much, I wonder if it might explain a little bit that the '32 Cadillac convertible coupe looks great with the top down.  Top goes pretty flat, and windshield is pretty thin and only chrome, etc.  No idea if that might explain it, but wondered what the wise ones here think of that idea. 

I think you are right Orin.  It is all looks and the 32 convertible coupe looks awesome.

I guess I would wonder what the comp was for the last 32 2 door 16 open car that has sold?

They made literally thousands of the 30/31 chassis.  Not so many in 32.

alsancleJan 27, 2021

I think you are right.  It is all looks and the 32 convertible coupe looks awesome.

I guess I would wonder what the comp was for the last 32 2 door 16 open car that has sold?

They made literally thousands of the 30/31 chassis.  Not so many in 32.

Thanks, Aj, glad that makes sense.  Might also explain why there isn't that much of a price difference between the '34 Packard convertible sedans and phaetons (on the convertible sedan, the convertible top goes down pretty flat, and the the windshield frame isn't bulky), while the 1931 Cadillac 16 all-weather phaetons seem to be remarkably inexpensive relative to other 16 open cars (the windshield is ungainly and the top when down is pretty tall).   It still seems pretty quirky that this  issue would make so much of a market difference, but then I guess this hobby isn't for normal people.

I disagree with AJ’s analysis. Across the board, roadsters always bring a lot more money than a convertible coupe. There are two 1932 V-16 Roadsters.........and three Phaetons. Certainly much more valuable, desirable, and ten times more collectible. 32’s are twenty five times  more rare than the first series, and are better mechanically also. I just don’t see the justification of a early car worth 1/3 the value of a identical 32. I could see a 32 roadster top 2 large..........with the 30-31’s bringing about 1.25-1.5 now. The high price is probably someone wanting a two door open 32 and they know the chance of securing a roadster are less than slim to none. 

So Ed,  if you think a 32 Roadster might top 2 large,  why is it hard to understand why a really nice convertible coupe brought 1/2 that much?

In 1932 they built 14 convertible coupes and 3 roadsters.

In 1930/1931 they built 100 convertible coupes and  105 roadsters.

I personally think the 32 is MUCH more attractive and the production numbers say a lot more hard to find.

alsancleJan 27, 2021

So Ed,  if you think a 32 Roadster might top 2 large,  why is it hard to understand why a really nice convertible coupe brought 1/2 that much?

In 1932 they built 14 convertible coupes and 3 roadsters.

In 1930/1931 they built 100 convertible coupes and  105 roadsters.

I personally think the 32 is MUCH more attractive and the production numbers say a lot more hard to find.

  For 30/31 there were two convertible coupes. 4235 (94 made) and 4335(100 made).  The 4300 series were $1000 less expensive than the 4200 convertible coups $5900 vs $6900.  
 

Quick difference is the sills.  4200 are curved.  4300 straight.  The roadster is in the “cheap” 4300 series.   Interesting that it is now the most expensive.  The sport phaeton is in the “expensive” series -4200. 
 

4235

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25719/lot/134/

4335

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/am15/amelia-island/lots/r183-1930-cadillac-v-16-convertible-coupe-by-fleetwood/181616

In my opinion the 4235 convertible coupe is better looking than the 4335 and compares favorably to the 32 convertible coupe.   But I love all v16s even a 1938-40 sedan. 

I agree.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9b/3a/96/9b3a9632161cd3fc370c5fec9211f017.jpg" data-ratio="86.00" width="800" src="https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9b/3a/96/9b3a9632161cd3fc370c5fec9211f017.jpg" />

https://www.rmw.lv/uploads/img/car_models/large/452_4335_1.jpg" data-ratio="57.14" width="700" src="https://www.rmw.lv/uploads/img/car_models/large/452_4335_1.jpg" />

alsancleJan 27, 2021

Btw,  I've been heavily involved in the hobby since I was 4 years old.    I was over 50 before I knew that there was a whole pack of people who wanted sidemount cars.  That was news to me.

With European cars, especially Mercedes there is almost a 2x premium for the rear mount cars.   Typically they are double vs single,  but there is a big premium.   I always assumed that was true across the board.

I am doing a 1936 Auburn 852 Phaeton with no sidemounts and the spare tire in the trunk - A lot of people like our 35 851 Phaeton with the formality of sidemounts, though I purposely went out of my way for an Auburn Phaeton with built on trunk and spare tire w/in trunk.

Here is the 1935

Back in the mid to late 1970's, we stopped in at a fellows place in I believe NJ (a side trip while visiting my Aunt in Wilmington, Delaware) - he had a 1932 V-16 Roadster (for sale for like 200K back then) and had a entire scrap yard of 1928/1929/1930/1931 Cadillac's.  He had cancer and was selling everything - he was sort of waxy looking and his fingers were curled up I believe backwards. I recall a 28/29 chassis with budd disk wheels and there was a 30 sedan with collapsible rear quarter.   We walked away without anything 31 as his prices were so high and ....  Anyone remember visiting him ? 

alsancleJan 27, 2021

 Sold For $1,022,500

Seems about right

This '31 is coming up at Mecum in Indy. Given the venue I would automatically assume to be flawed some way but the description sounds pretty impressive.

Mecum actually has some nice real cars sometimes.

alsancleMar 13, 2021

Mecum actually has some nice real cars sometimes.

I agree.....amazing people are so lazy they send a car to the worst auction it could go to. Then they will bitch it didn’t bring any money.

alsancleMar 13, 2021

Mecum actually has some nice real cars sometimes.

No offense to Mecum as they have a very nice system, good marketing, a large television presence, and ..., plus have been trying to focus more 365 degrees- but generally the people following and attending their auctions tend to not be focused on such as brass cars, nickle cars, and such as CCCA classic cars - some times Mecum hits the ball out of the ballpark, but most of the times I just hear the complaining. 

I assume this is from the same collection ?

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-462349/1931-cadillac-series-452a-v-16-coach-sill-convertible-coupe/

https://mecumgallery.com/1934-cadillac-452d-v-16-fleetwood-aerodynamic-coupe

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-462343/1930-duesenberg-model-sj-rollston-convertible-victoria/

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-462344/1936-duesenberg-model-j-rollston-convertible-berline/

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-462346/1934-packard-1108-twelve-dietrich-individual-custom-convertible-sedan/

It looks like the majority of the classics will be running Saturday . Mecum is going to try to and squeeze those Duesenbergs in a few lots before an '85 Cadillac and a stretch limo made from an old Lear jet (and I'm not joking, that's actually what it looks like).

Both Rollston J's are GREAT cars.   The bidders will find them, even at Mecum.

The SJ is a real one of the 36,  but with a Gehpart blower.

There have been a handful of GOOD Model J’s changing hands in the last month........  private sales, and top dollar.......cars breaking new ground.  Good J’s are almost impossible to find even if you have millions of dollars in your hands ready to pull the trigger.

edinmassMar 13, 2021

Good AJ’s are almost impossible to find

Freudian slip?  What say you @alsancle?

GrimyMar 13, 2021

Freudian slip?  What say you @alsancle?

Never meet a “good” AJ........my auto correct punched it in and a I didn’t notice it. He’s the black sheep in the family..........don’t want to say too much bad about him........he lets me drive his cars.(Read that as beat the hell out of them like a red headed step child.) 

alsancleMar 13, 2021

Both Rollston J's are GREAT cars.   The bidders will find them, even at Mecum.

The SJ is a real one of the 36,  but with a Gehpart blower.

You think the 1936 Rollston would be identified correctly.........?

edinmassMar 13, 2021

You think the 1936 Rollston would be identified correctly.........?

I didn’t read the description.  Did they boob it up?  I would take either of those two cars in a second.  

John_MerenessMar 13, 2021

I assume this is from the same collection ?

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-462349/1931-cadillac-series-452a-v-16-coach-sill-convertible-coupe/

https://mecumgallery.com/1934-cadillac-452d-v-16-fleetwood-aerodynamic-coupe

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-462343/1930-duesenberg-model-sj-rollston-convertible-victoria/

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-462344/1936-duesenberg-model-j-rollston-convertible-berline/

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-462346/1934-packard-1108-twelve-dietrich-individual-custom-convertible-sedan/

The 34 v16 with later year bumpers belongs to Academy of Art University collection.  Mecum has previously sold many of their cars. 
 

alsancleMar 13, 2021

I didn’t read the description.  Did they boob it up?  I would take either of those two cars in a second.  

Sure looks like a JN to me........thoughts?

alsancleMar 13, 2021

I didn’t read the description.  Did they boob it up?  I would take either of those two cars in a second.  

Add it to the dream on list...........

edinmassMar 13, 2021

You think the 1936 Rollston would be identified correctly.........?

It is a JN.   Agreed that should be mentioned in the description. 

alsancleMar 14, 2021

It is a JN.   Agreed that should be mentioned in the description. 

Being one of only ten made, and a Rollston with great style, yes.......but then again, that’s what happens when you send gold to an auction house that sells swill. An opportunity to buy a JN comes along once every ten or twenty years. Makes no sense the car was sent there. 

edinmassMar 14, 2021

Being one of only ten made, and a Rollston with great style, yes.......but then again, that’s what happens when you send gold to an auction house that sells swill. An opportunity to buy a JN comes along once every ten or twenty years. Makes no sense the car was sent there. 

I think if you want a Rollston JN,  then you sign up with Mecum.   They get some good cars,  like I said before.

It’s one of the few cars that someone would chase regardless of where it is. Still think it’s a foolish place to sell it. Anyone want to play guess the price? I expect that car will bring a fairly high number.

Do you like it with or without the skirts?

Cadillac FanMar 17, 2021

Do you like it with or without the skirts?

I don't like skirts in general and definitely not on this car.

It is going to bring a lot of money.

alsancleMar 18, 2021

I don't like skirts in general and definitely not on this car.

It is going to bring a lot of money.

Shall we play guess the number? It’s very late. That adds value. Much more unique than a regular Murphy of the same style. Looks nice. Probably only have to dump 75-100 in it when you get it. That said......it’s seven figures all day long.....I’m thinking 1.2-1.4 thoughts?

 I prefer the Rollston Victoria.  And not really a fan of the JNs.  (Ducks his head). 
 

But, my guess is hammer of 1.6 with a 12 percent commission because it is a phone bidder (it’s a 10 percent commission for live bidders). 

Cadillac FanMar 19, 2021

 I prefer the Rollston Victoria.  And not really a fan of the JNs.  (Ducks his head). 
 

But, my guess is hammer of 1.6 with a 12 percent commission because it is a phone bidder (it’s a 10 percent commission for live bidders). 

My preference is the open fender 19" wheel cars.   However,  the Rollston SJ Victoria was originally a 17" skirted fender car too.

edinmassMar 19, 2021

Shall we play guess the number? It’s very late. That adds value. Much more unique than a regular Murphy of the same style. Looks nice. Probably only have to dump 75-100 in it when you get it. That said......it’s seven figures all day long.....I’m thinking 1.2-1.4 thoughts?

For the first time in recorded history you have a lower number than I do.   I'm thinking 1.5-1.7.

I think technically it's NOT a JN. It was built at the factory from leftovers after the JN series of cars. It has a Rollston JN style body, done AFTER the factory JN series. Interesting........so it's a J,  post JN in the style of the JN series. That will make your head spin. I'm not a convertible sedan type of owner......but this appeals to me....even with it's heavy lines. 

Those headlights, though.

The pontoon fenders are more attractive than the standard JN fender.

I am guessing the Victoria will be around 1.4 million, all in. I deducted 200 K because is was rebodied and another 200 K just because the red top is ugly. The JN will be 2.1. I'm probably high but you never know.  

You must prefer the previous top color:

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/sj12/st--john-s/lots/r105-1930-duesenberg-model-sj-convertible-victoria-by-the-rollston-company/280634

It will be interesting to see how the v16 convertible coupe at Mecum does compared with the 32 v16 that started this thread.  I have always wondered if a non-Leather interior in an open car is a negative, as far as value. 

ericmacApr 6, 2021

I am guessing the Victoria will be around 1.4 million, all in. I deducted 200 K because is was rebodied and another 200 K just because the red top is ugly. The JN will be 2.1. I'm probably high but you never know.  

It is not fair to call this car a rebody.   It was basically built as a new car by the factory in 1934 for band leader Paul Whiteman.    This included factory uprating to SJ status.   In its original 1934 configuration it had 17" wheels and skirted fenders.

I think it will do much better than 1.4.     Real SJ spec Duesenbergs are almost never available.

alsancleApr 9, 2021

It is not fair to call this car a rebody.   It was basically built as a new car by the factory in 1934 for band leader Paul Whiteman.    This included factory uprating to SJ status.   In its original 1934 configuration it had 17" wheels and skirted fenders.

I think it will do much better than 1.4.     Real SJ spec Duesenbergs are almost never available.

Do you know if this is consider one of the 36, or so, “factory supercharged” cars.  
 

Or is it only considered a factory sj when it first leaves the factory?  
 

I love it and my only change would have been to ordered it with the long wheelbase chassis.  
 

Cadillac FanApr 9, 2021

Do you know if this is consider one of the 36, or so, “factory supercharged” cars.  
 

Or is it only considered a factory sj when it first leaves the factory?  
 

I love it and my only change would have been to ordered it with the long wheelbase chassis.  
 

The list is open to debate but this car would be considered a factory SJ by anybody that matters.

alsancleApr 9, 2021

The list is open to debate but this car would be considered a factory SJ by anybody that matters.

It's a very good car, and a category one ACD vehicle........I would consider it a factory blower. Model J's are hot as they can be right now..........I would think that the car will brings a very respectable price.

Low estimates of $3.5 million and $2.75 million!
 

makes the reserve around $3 million and $2.5 million.  

I realize that the collector market is on fire but these seem outrageous high.     Especially since the Victoria sold for under a million 8 years ago, or so.  
 

I would much prefer the Murphy torpedo at RM than the Rollston JN and can’t believe they have the same estimates. 
 

does Mecum take dogecoin?

Yes, they do accept dogecoin: 

https://news.bitcoin.com/mecum-auctions-now-accepts-digital-currency-payments-for-collector-cars/

Ha! I find this to be totally hilarious but it's also probably a brilliant move on Mecum's part.

md murrayMay 19, 2021

Ha! I find this to be totally hilarious but it's also probably a brilliant move on Mecum's part.

How else can you sell overpriced cars to drug dealers? Easy way to do the laundry.

Wow!

The J at Amelia went for over five million.......

alsancleJan 3, 2021

I've been a very lucky boy and have been able to drive a couple of different 30 V16 Roadsters.  Smooth, easy to drive, don't make you look stupid trying to shift it.  But the one thing that stood out to me was the hood did not feel very long, relative to other "titan" level cars.   The 32 hood looks a little longer,  is true?

I really like this convertible coupe.

Lovely v16

Will be interesting to see results.  I could put a V16 medallion on my "ordinary" V8, but has only has 6 louvers on each side.  Who really wants to see 2 V8s back to back

Matt HarwoodDec 9, 2020

I don't much care for the '32s either--I always felt that the headlights were a touch too small, like the King Bee lights on a hot rod.

That said, who the hell would kick that one out of bed for eating crackers? Certainly not I! I like the lack of sidemounts on this one, and while I do not believe double rear spares were offered, I think they would really finish the car nicely. One single little spare tire back there looks kind of bourgeois on such a car as this.

Being the proud owner of a 32 ("only" a V-8) and having  just added Pilot Rays I have to disagree about the headlights.  On the 32 the Pilot Rays (shown on a 32 convertible coupe in the accessory booklet) are attached to the support piece of the bumper, rather than farther back on the tubular cross member of the 31.  I think gives a more forward look with the Pilot Rays as in this beautiful 32 roadster.

Now anyone know where the switch for the Pilot Rays is?  Can't see any switch I don't recognize on the dash.  Was the wiring integrated into the light switch at steering wheel center?  Would "country driving" be the choice to include the Pilot Rays to be on, but off in other light choices?

If I am not mistaken, there is an empty spot on the Klum switch on 32-33 cars, If memory serves me, it only activates when you turn on high beams.