1932 Nash selling at Auburn

A great and beautiful car, obviously well-loved and well-used-

could be a fun tour/driver

Any Guesses on price?  I'll open at 40-45G.  Judging by what some Auburns have been selling for lately and what that green Packard dual cowl Phaeton brought.  Could have stood a detailing before selling.  It would just make it look more loved than neglected. 

I'm gonna guess anywhere from 40-50 all in.   We have two public price points from the last couple of years on the Advanced Eight.  The restored one at Guyton brought a LOT of money.

There is only one Ambassador, I believe.

Remember the Auburn Auction last fall where this Auburn sold for 60G.  Of all places I would have thought Auburn would have yielded a higher sale price.

Did this Nash at one time belong to Richard Miller of long island, NY then relocate to West Virginia when he moved there. If it was on long  Island with Richie Miller I know the car, this would have been 40+ years ago and I think he got the car from the Utica, NY area. Richie and his wife Joan also owned a 1932 Reo Flying Cloud conv coupe, a Nash sedan of the same series as the conv sedan, a Stutz limousine with a Rollston body , and a Marmon Little 8 touring car and a i believe a Gardner roadster.

Walt GJul 10, 2020

Did this Nash at one time belong to Richard Miller of long island, NY then relocate to West Virginia when he moved there. If it was on long  Island with Richie Miller I know the car, this would have been 40+ years ago and I think he got the car from the Utica, NY area. Richie and his wife Joan also owned a 1932 Reo Flying Cloud conv coupe, a Nash sedan of the same series as the conv sedan, a Stutz limousine with a Rollston body , and a Marmon Little 8 touring car and a i believe a Gardner roadster.

Walt,  I thought Walter Miller owned this for years and years.  Are they related?

md murrayJul 9, 2020

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/af20/auburn-fall/lots/l0097-1932-nash-advance-eight-convertible-sedan-by-seaman/887404

What a great looking car. It's being offered along with some other really interesting original Walter Miller cars. Anybody know the scoop? I assume that's an older repaint?

Old repaint, by looking at lower firewall pic you can see some original 1932 paint color near the tag.  That original firewall mat cover looks like it's never been off.   The tag decodes as: 10 is 1932 second series, 9 will mean Advanced 8 or Ambassador, depending on what is the last number....which being 3 adds up to Advanced 8 4 door conv sedan.  The suffix "  -8 " means it's the 8th 1093 body off the line.

I'm out of the loop... Walter Miller Cars?  Is this the recently passed Walter Miller of Literature Fame?  I recently joined the Nash club and when viewing past and present owners 1932 Nashes, I know I saw that name as listed for one of the 4 door convertibles and wondered if it was the literature Walter.

I got this 32 2nd series fold out from the literature Walter:

This one is printed in Dutch,  the 1093 is shown in the lower right group of 90 Series offerings.  The 3 closed cars in the bottom center are the biggest, Ambassador LWB offerings which are "90 series" as well.  It does not show a Ambassador Conv Sedan, but I have seen an omission on the 1933 Nash "Full Line poster". (In that case they did not list a 6 convertible sedan for 33, but one fully documented one with proper body tag exists today.)

I know I read someplace years ago stating " 3 Ambassador conv sedans were built. but only one survives".  That must have been about 1933 models because that statement also shows up on the Nash site describing that one survivor.  As a young guy I happened to see it in an open sided pole barn in far Northern Mass in the late 70s or very early 80s stored with many dozens of Nash and some other brands.

Pic above is right after Tom Lester bought it.  Then fully restored, then sold after his passing but now in the Nash club with latest owner, listed as a 1193 which is confusing to me as a non-expert trying to learn precise model numbers.  .The 11 means 33, but I was under the impression that 93 meant Advanced 4 door conv?

I wish I could find my 1933 poster to see if they listed a Ambassador 4 dr conv, and if so, what model number did it carry?. 

Richard "Richie" Miller and Water Miller were not related. Richie moved to Gatlinburg, Tennessee , I thought it was West Virginia but later checked after I made the post. Richie loved the big 1932-1933 Nash cars and had a sedan as well that he drove for decades ( Austin Clark may have made a post card of that sedan) . The car that Walter Miller had he may have bought from Richie Millers estate after Richie passed away. That I do not know.

Walt

auburnseekerJul 9, 2020

Remember the Auburn Auction last fall where this Auburn sold for 60G.  Of all places I would have thought Auburn would have yielded a higher sale price.

The Auburn comp is interesting.  They are visually very similar,  both straight eight engines.   The Nash Advanced Eight was probably a tad more expensive when new.   The Nash is rare,  the Auburn has a bigger following.

The Guyton car brought a lot of money - 340k all in.   But as we say constantly around here,  was maybe smarter than getting the subject car for free and doing the restoration.

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/gc19/the-guyton-collection/lots/r0042-1932-nash-advanced-eight-convertible-sedan-by-seaman/750691

https://rmsothebys-cache.azureedge.net/3/1/0/7/a/a/3107aa1a213edad1bbe5d1be2412514487e8efb3.jpg" data-ratio="75.00" height="925" width="1200" src="https://rmsothebys-cache.azureedge.net/3/1/0/7/a/a/3107aa1a213edad1bbe5d1be2412514487e8efb3.jpg">

Btw,  is it just me or are the Auburn and Nash bodies identical?

alsancleJul 10, 2020

Btw,  is it just me or are the Auburn and Nash bodies identical?

Yep! ...pretty funny

alsancleJul 10, 2020

Btw,  is it just me or are the Auburn and Nash bodies identical?

If you study very closely, the belt is different on the cowl, the lower part of windshield is straight across the width, versus slightly curved up on the Nash.  The belt is slightly different at the very front part of front doors.

I've always thought that Nash tried to borrow various styling details from all 3 of ACD built cars. 

alsancleJul 10, 2020

The Guyton car brought a lot of money - 340k all in.   But as we say constantly around here,  was maybe smarter than getting the subject car for free and doing the restoration.

Well, depends on where a person resides in the financial food chain,  ... If you really zoom in on the blue Nash, you can see the inevitable, albeit extremely minor, signs of a 1000 point Pebble Beach restoration starting to age..  

So, if a lower funded person just "has to have a big Nash" and isn't into competition and wants to be able to drive the wheels off of it, you'd need to find a body guy that knows how to put the subject Nash back into proper factory paint colors, fix the loose wood joints in at least the LF and RR doors, but not tear it all apart.  More like a  used car "fixer upper", and nowhere near the term restoration.  There are a few shops I've seen online, that could pull it off and still keep the general look as being a "repainted survivor".  Good prewar survivors have been gaining respect and more buyers for at least the last few years.

BTW ...the blue Nash certainly proves AJ's view on just how great certain cars do look in blackwalls.  Hot Damn

F&JJul 10, 2020

Well, depends on where a person resides in the financial food chain,  ... If you really zoom in on the blue Nash, you can see the inevitable, albeit extremely minor, signs of a 1000 point Pebble Beach restoration starting to age.. 

Frank,  did you know it has been to Pebble or was that an educated guess?

alsancleJul 10, 2020

Frank,  did you know it has been to Pebble or was that an educated guess?

It was an educated guess, meaning that I DO see it was a top shelf, no expense withheld restoration.  So, I knew it just had to have been shown against the best of the top shelf contenders.

Back to what was said about current/past collector desirability of the Auburn instead of a big Nash, I honestly believe that the Nash brand name, even if subconsciously,  carries the negative stigma of the dying decade of Nash and then turning to another negative stigma, the Rambler.  Many people my age, when buying our first cheap teenage daily driver cheap used car in the mid to late 60s, would never consider these brands.  They had the stigma of being everyone's last choice just like Studebakers.

When I started going to Hershey in 71, I only had time to look in the lower priced classes of 1929-1930 because of the 29 Desoto roadster I had.  One year, while heading to the old long tar show field. I spotted a huge early 30s very expensive looking ambulance.  I sidetracked over to read the grille emblem..WTH? Nash???  I never had a clue that Nash ever built such monster high end classy cars.  It was a 32 First series, LWB Ambassador? perhaps it was.

Then, when going up to that pole barn in Mass decades ago to look at a couple of cars listed in Hemmings, we were headed to the open pole barn and I saw that huge Nash from quite a distance.  I asked the sawmill yard worker who was showing me around, if that was a Duesenberg!  He said no, it's a Nash.  I said are you kidding?

Point being, if a person was never exposed (back in the pre-internet decades) (or in person), to the fact that Nash made the "Kenosha Duesenbergs", you didn't even bother to read a Nash ad in Hemmings. 

I don't mean to disrespect anyone in life, but I certainly know that some extremely wealthy people tend to purchase what their peers do. Thank goodness they are a very small minority, as all prewars should be coveted/preserved by someone.

Me? and my little poser 32 Nash conv sedan?  Sure, I still wish I could have a big series Nash, but for a long time now, it really suits me as now a very low income person, ......probably just like the first owner was in 32.  That body style on an entry level chassis, allowed the lower end buyers to kinda have a "classy looking upscale car".

Frank,  your Nash is very cool and attractive.   I'm a car snob and I love it.

I'm struggling with the Auburn vs Nash thing because my natural inclination would be to take the Nash 9 times out of 10,  but I don't really have a reason why.   Rarity? Longer wheelbase?  Slightly lower windshield?   The twin plug overhead valve thing is nice,  but not huge to me.   125HP vs what in the Auburn?

alsancleJul 10, 2020

I'm struggling with the Auburn vs Nash thing because my natural inclination would be to take the Nash 9 times out of 10,  but I don't really have a reason why.   Rarity? Longer wheelbase? 

I have always thought the 31/32 Auburn is one of those rare "pinnacle" automotive styling designs, referring to a styling & proportions homerun.  To choose only one word, it would be stunning, vs. beautiful or classy.

If I had to choose between the best Auburn 4dr conv or the blue Nash above, I'd go with the nash.  Same would be true if choice between the Miller Nash in it's condition vs a 31/32 Auburn 4dr conv in same condition....But I don't honestly know why either.

I keep forgetting to say that when I went through the members-only 32 Nash Club's current owners photos, there is a hardcore 32 Nash-only collector in the eastern US that has nearly 2 dozen of all the 8 cylinder models, mostly 2nd series but some high end big 1st series too. About half are open cars: conv sedans and 2 sizes of conv coupes (which are scarcer). 

Take a close look at the car up for auction, I like it, and have inspected the Guyton car since the sale, as it ended up with a friend. Walter’s old car is on my want to own list. A quick back of the envelope calculation makes me think the number being tossed around is too high. I’ll guess 35k all in.........maybe.

edinmassJul 10, 2020

Walter’s old car is on my want to own list.

That would be cool if you end up with it.  I won't ask if you plan on bidding, but even as a person not following past or current auctions, I think that 35k would be near impossible, as in too low.  I am thinking the 32 Nash collector I spoke of, might not be bidding on it because he has at least 3 1932 second series 4 dr conv sedans, in 80 and 90 series.

BTW AJ, my senior moment lasted only 24 hours... I just now found my 1933 full line sales poster.  Years back Dave Mitchell was restoring a clients big series 32 conv sedan, and he was totally adamant that Nash never, ever, offered a 4 door convertible on the Ambassador 142 WB in 32 or 33.  He insisted that the longest WB on all of those convs was the 133, despite me asking about the "one survivor out of 3" story...

...I will take a pic of the poster in daylight, but I now see where the confusion comes from.  Nash simply changed the model names on the prior Advanced 8 1932 Conv to now be known as the 33 Ambassador Conv, but the WB stayed the same at 133. I assume the 33 Ambassador conv likely now had the biggest engine and other Ambassador features, but the new name switch did not mean anything about WB getting longer like all of the 32 Ambassadors had ( only 3 styles of bodies, all closed ).

I wasn’t planning on bidding on it. I recently looked at another Nash, and the market, currently; is strikingly poor. A close examination of Walters car should cause anyone to be sure to calculate the minimum requirement of investment to make a reliable driver........I have an opinion as to required value of work to make it a reliable fun car.......if there are unknown issues, then it probably makes sense to walk away. 

F&JJul 11, 2020

That would be cool if you end up with it.  I won't ask if you plan on bidding, but even as a person not following past or current auctions, I think that 35k would be near impossible, as in too low.  I am thinking the 32 Nash collector I spoke of, might not be bidding on it because he has at least 3 1932 second series 4 dr conv sedans, in 80 and 90 series.

BTW AJ, my senior moment lasted only 24 hours... I just now found my 1933 full line sales poster.  Years back Dave Mitchell was restoring a clients big series 32 conv sedan, and he was totally adamant that Nash never, ever, offered a 4 door convertible on the Ambassador 142 WB in 32 or 33.  He insisted that the longest WB on all of those convs was the 133, despite me asking about the "one survivor out of 3" story...

...I will take a pic of the poster in daylight, but I now see where the confusion comes from.  Nash simply changed the model names on the prior Advanced 8 1932 Conv to now be known as the 33 Ambassador Conv, but the WB stayed the same at 133. I assume the 33 Ambassador conv likely now had the biggest engine and other Ambassador features, but the new name switch did not mean anything about WB getting longer like all of the 32 Ambassadors had ( only 3 styles of bodies, all closed ).

So the Tom Lester car is visually identical to this car but with a bigger engine?   They do look the same.

That IS the 33 Ambassador Lester car before restoring, and it is the same one I saw at the sawmill pole barn just northeast of Athol Mass.  It honestly looked so huge in person as it sat lengthwise on the outside row, barely out of the rain. 

The mill owner was a Nash guy and also an antique car flipper. A 76 yr old local friend of mine was very good friends with that mill owner who was named Hutchinson or Hutchison.  His yard worker told me that the boss bought logs out of Canada frequently, and often had his guys go up there to haul antiques back to the mill,  I have no info how long he owned it, or where he got it.  It may have been kept until his passing, as it was the only big Nash in that huge building as I recall.

EDIT, now I think you knew that one was the Lester car. So to answer your question about the Miller car, I think the Lester car simply has to have the bigger motor, but definitely is the same 133WB

F&JJul 11, 2020

That IS the 33 Ambassador Lester car before restoring, and it is the same one I saw at the sawmill pole barn just northeast of Athol Mass.  It honestly looked so huge in person as it sat lengthwise on the outside row, barely out of the rain. 

The mill owner was a Nash guy and also an antique car flipper. A 76 yr old local friend of mine was very good friends with that mill owner who was named Hutchinson or Hutchison.  His yard worker told me that the boss bought logs out of Canada frequently, and often had his guys go up there to haul antiques back to the mill,  I have no info how long he owned it, or where he got it.  It may have been kept until his passing, as it was the only big Nash in that huge building as I recall.

EDIT, now I think you knew that one was the Lester car. So to answer your question about the Miller car, I think the Lester car simply has to have the bigger motor, but definitely is the same 133WB

Thanks Frank.  Yes,  I knew that was the Lester car but should have been more clear.    I mentioned this in your thread, I'm sure, but Richard Blomquist was selling a 1090 club sedan with a rear spare 10 or 15 years ago that was SO COOL.  Seems to have disappeared.

http://www.nashcarclub.org/nccaphot/thirty/32_1097.jpg" data-ratio="210.09" height="915" width="435" src="http://www.nashcarclub.org/nccaphot/thirty/32_1097.jpg">

The 1932-'33 Nash are Kenosha's most attractively styled 1930's products, is there a consensus who the designer(s) was/were?   Count de Sahkoffsky was credited with the 1934, though those look a tad overwrought with too many speed lines.  

alsancleJul 11, 2020

Richard Blomquist was selling a 1090 club sedan with a rear spare 10 or 15 years ago that was SO COOL.  Seems to have disappeared

I remember it well, he listed it several times on Ebay then told the viewers "Come on people! this is a special car!  BTW, Richard bought a nice pair of sidemount fenders and metal covers offered to the potential buyers, but whomever bought it did not take them.

Here's pics of a 32 and a 33 sales folders.

Above pic is 32 printed in Dutch,  showing the 90 series, but only the 133WB models available.  That conv sedan is the biggest 32 conv, but listed in 32 as Advanced, not an Ambassador.

above pic showing the only 3 of the 90 series models that had the 142 WB in 1932. These 3 were the only Ambassadors for 32.

Below pics from the 1933 folder, note that Nash now renamed the models in the bigger series for some reason. The first of the below pics show that even though the these were now named Ambassors, they still rode on 133WB.  This must be why the Lester car was said to be
one of 3 made"?  Meaning it is the only known surviving Ambassador conv sedan

Below, the 1933 142 WB offerings at bottom edge of this pic, same as 1932.

Ok, I'd need to take these out of the frames to read the specs on the backs, to know just what other Ambassador features the Lester car would have, compared to a 1932 Advanced 8 conv sedan.

But, looking in the Standard Catalog of US cars, it says all 90 series cars had the big 322 engine, and all 80 series had the 260...for 32 and 33 as well.   So, apparently the Lester car must be the only 322 engine conv sedan known? and the Miller car must have the 260?  it seems so.

.

F&JJul 11, 2020

But, looking in the Standard Catalog of US cars, it says all 90 series cars had the big 322 engine, and all 80 series had the 260...for 32 and 33 as well.   So, apparently the Lester car must be the only 322 engine conv sedan known? and the Miller car must have the 260?  it seems so.

So are the blocks on the Ambassador identical and the only difference is the stroke to get the displacement?   I'm definitely confused  but you have helped immensely with the wheelbase information.   I was a member of the Nash club for a long time but my wife pays my membership dues and looks like that one got dropped at some point.

This is supposed to be an Ambassador coupe.   I assume a 133 wheelbase?  It looks longer.

https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6081/6034538425_90f0903eaa.jpg" data-ratio="66.73" width="499" src="https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6081/6034538425_90f0903eaa.jpg">

alsancleJul 11, 2020

So are the blocks on the Ambassador identical and the only difference is the stroke to get the displacement? 

I have no idea.  I could have sworn I read something about dual carbs, but could be wrong.

alsancleJul 11, 2020

This is supposed to be an Ambassador coupe.   I assume a 133 wheelbase?  It looks longer.

I have no idea, because.... I know the 33 brochure has at least one car missing in the 6 cylinder line up. I mentioned elsewhere that there is one documented surviving Big Six 2 dr conv sedan, and I saw the definitely original old body ID tag, to verify it was a genuine car.  So, how can we assume there never was a certain other model, if we only rely on old sales brochures?  

If a person was able to look at that coupe in person, then read the body tag, measure WB, and more inspection to look for signs if it was faked or not... who knows?

auburnseekerJul 9, 2020

Remember the Auburn Auction last fall where this Auburn sold for 60G.  Of all places I would have thought Auburn would have yielded a higher sale price.

The people who go to the ACD Festival and are ACD Club members generally have other things on the their plate Labor Day Weekend than going to the auctions (matched to the auctions are sort of not know these days for bringing in the best ACD products).  My point is that if you have a really great ACD product then there are other auction times throughout the year (and other better ways to sell your car) - aka it is a strategy thing. 

alsancleJul 11, 2020

Thanks Frank.  Yes,  I knew that was the Lester car but should have been more clear.    I mentioned this in your thread, I'm sure, but Richard Blomquist was selling a 1090 club sedan with a rear spare 10 or 15 years ago that was SO COOL.  Seems to have disappeared.

http://www.nashcarclub.org/nccaphot/thirty/32_1097.jpg" class="ipsImage_thumbnailed" data-ratio="210.09" height="915" width="435" src="http://www.nashcarclub.org/nccaphot/thirty/32_1097.jpg">

Neat car !!!

auburnseekerJul 9, 2020

Remember the Auburn Auction last fall where this Auburn sold for 60G.  Of all places I would have thought Auburn would have yielded a higher sale price.

Add'l Sidenote:  So we restored our 31 Phaeton in the early 1980's and if I recall correctly this car and the other black and silver one were all out on the show circuit the same year.   My point being, it was a very nice car when initially done, but possibly could have needed a significant pick-me-up.

that would make it a good tour car now.  My car was refreshed in the 60's so it's a lot more seasoned now than this. 

This Nash Advanced Eight Convertible Sedan:   A nice scratch and dent special and I doubt you could find a more solid unrestored/older restored one no matter how how you try - but most likely one of those cars that sells for a decent enough amount of money and yet as a result you then cannot cost effectively restore it (albeit if a second in marketplace can support the Guyton sale price you should safely have 200K to 250K + or - to work with).

Personally, I would have a maroon set of wheels on it asap (with new tires), find the few missing parts, and then do small tinkering projects cosmetically - with the bulk of my time and money being spent on it mechanically.  

And, that trunk on the trunk rack I know is painted same color and in same condition as rest of the car, but it needs removed as quickly as quick can be imagined.

Cost effectively restoring it is out of the question, that said, after looking it over well, cost effectively making a driver out of it is still a big issue. Whatever the hammer price, your going to double it to have it go down the road correctly. Walter was a good friend, but he didn’t have a good mechanic and he didn’t put money into cars after he bought them. Just the minimum of what it needed to drive around town.

edinmassJul 11, 2020

Cost effectively restoring it is out of the question, that said, after looking it over well, cost effectively making a driver out of it is still a big issue. Whatever the hammer price, your going to double it to have it go down the road correctly. Walter was a good friend, but he didn’t have a good mechanic and he didn’t put money into cars after he bought them. Just the minimum of what it needed to drive around town.

I will remove my diplomacy: 

YES, THAT IS EXACTLY THE ISSUE - like everyone though thought it was a puppy and it turned out to be a wolf with rabies - when I say "with the bulk of my time and money being spent on it mechanically" - it is ripe for an entire going through and I perhaps will not go 100 feet at a time without issue - maybe not even 20 feet at a time (and it stands a strong chance of being one issue after the next after the next) - given the car and its prior ownership (as nice interesting a person as he was and I enjoyed every conversation with him) it is probably ripe as ripe comes to eating someone out of every penny they have in their piggy bank (and then wiping through the checking account, the savings account, and the retirement accounts too).  And, the cost of doing anything on cosmetically it is just too much money as it will go for decent/serious money and every single part on it falls under that category of scratch and dent special (ie. while nice enough, every part has a flaw to it and nothing done to date on the car is really exceptionally well done).   And then there is a parts unobtainium issue (plus, hordes of die cast that are failing).  

I hate to say it, but just one of those "awkward" priced and condition cars. 

And when I mention the Guyton car, I failed to mention that it probably had 100K of loss upon sale on it when you factor in the restoration cost matched to initial purchase price.

The Guyton car was probably 500k all in, and that was back ten or fifteen years ago. It ended up in a friends garage who is low key, and I don’t expect it will get out much. The other thing no one mentioned is the Nash cars snap axles like there is no tomorrow, and no one is making them. I actually know where there are three of them, two short and one long. The guy who has them doesn’t want money.......he wants parts to trade.........and he’s been waiting fifteen years for what he needs and still nothing.

edinmassJul 11, 2020

The Guyton car was probably 500k all in, and that was back ten or fifteen years ago.

I knew it was a high dollar exceptional restoration when done (I had all in pegged at low 400's, but really did not know for sure) and that was why car did so well at sale, but sounds like I was short on the loss (so they lost 150K to 175K on what otherwise looked like a health sale - though the flip side of the coin is that I guess it does not matter too much when someone has passed on and will not be crying about sales price).

Sidenote: The problem with 1930's (and other era too) Convertibles - The best restored Convertibles tend to lean toward the side of the owner taking a loss on the sale and the unrestored and older restored Convertibles tend to go for decent enough money that there allows for little to no wiggle room to improve the product without then taking a loss on sale either - aka my comment of "I hate to say it, but just one of those "awkward" priced and condition cars."  

BOAT - definition: Break out another thousand! (BOAT)

BOAT - a hole in the water you throw hundred dollar bills in.......non stop.

BOAT- Second best day Of ownership is the day you buy it, Best day of ownership is the day you sell it.

Gee........sounds like we are not alone in our hobbies! 
 

The Nash is very neat............but even under the best of circumstances it’s going to be a challenge not to be endlessly buried in it. I don’t mind taking hits on toys, as long as the damage is kept to a minimum. The Nash is going to be two handfuls, if your lucky, and one bad turn and it’s off to the cleaners. In the aggregate I am probably even in my buying and selling, which is much better than average. The time, hotels, travel, truck and trailer.....I don’t count. I have only done on car personally with no regards to budget, but I do try to come out even. Unfortunately I don’t think the Nash even at much lower numbers that are being tossed around, would come out anywhere but underwater...........and it won’t be in the shallows.

Ed, quit with the cold water.  One of us may be dumb enough to jump in.  At least it is rare and attractive.

alsancleJul 11, 2020

Ed, quit with the cold water.  One of us may be dumb enough to jump in.  At least it is rare and attractive.

Don’t you already have a brown and tan sinkhole with wheels that needs a month of Sunday’s for me to get sorted? You don’t need another right now............unless Pam says it’s OK? Should I call her and ask?

edinmassJul 11, 2020

Don’t you already have a brown and tan sinkhole with wheels that needs a month of Sunday’s for me to get sorted? You don’t need another right now............unless Pam says it’s OK? Should I call her and ask?

She is all in now that I found a cheaper way to maintain the cars.  

You need to admit this Nash at 35k is a worthwhile endeavor for somebody to sink their time in to.   Guys blow tons of money on mass produced stuff that they show up to a cruise night with and there are 3 others the same color.

This is cool and the chances of parking next to another one at a show are about equal to you buying dinner.

I'm thinking the ole "twist the shaft to make the handle straight" trick might not work on this car.   Btw,  do those wheels come apart?

You buy the Nash and I am  certain you will park next to all the other survivors before I buy you dinner.......and for the record, it’s going to be a happy meal! And not the high end cheese burger........just the plain Jane burger, and I keep the prize!

alsancleJul 11, 2020

I'm thinking the ole "twist the shaft to make the handle straight" trick might not work on this car.   Btw,  do those wheels come apart?

Unique KelseyHayes drop center with beauty rings missing. I made them 10 years ago with John...........add 1500 to the parts cost list. Plus buffing. Sandblast and powder coat wheels 2500. Left rear door is looking like a potato chip that’s why the handle and latch have issues......wood? Look at the exhaust pipe.......another 2500 to get it up to 2 1/4 inch correct with hangers. Tires and tubes. Shall I make a complete list? Don’t forget to add fifty bucks to throw the trunk in the dumpster! If you post engine compartment photos, I can keep the list going.

alsancleJul 11, 2020

Ed, quit with the cold water.  One of us may be dumb enough to jump in.  At least it is rare and attractive.

No Balls... may get me banned for saying it, but that's what I'd say to you in person.  (because I'd like to see it get appreciated for what it really is...an old survivor.)

Ed's been billing the Pebble/Amelia crowd for decades, heck we can fix some stuff it needs for dirt cheap.  Store it at my place for a "wife hiding purchase" ......um......a year free storage!,,,, but leave the keys and a full tank....

... cause I want to cruise Watch Hill, R.I. trolling for a rich widow that owns a beach house.  (no lie, my son seriously said I should do that a few years back)

hey, you pro's......did you notice that one original trumpet is the wrong size yet?  I might have one.

.

F&JJul 11, 2020

No Balls... may get me banned for saying it, but that's what I'd say to you in person.  (because I'd like to see it get appreciated for what it really is...an old survivor.)

Ed's been billing the Pebble/Amelia crowd for decades, heck we can fix some stuff it needs for dirt cheap.  Store it at my place for a "wife hiding purchase" ......um......a year free storage!,,,, but leave the keys and a full tank....

... cause I want to cruise Watch Hill, R.I. trolling for a rich widow that owns a beach house.  (no lie, my son seriously said I should do that a few years back)

hey, you pro's......did you notice that one original trumpet is the wrong size yet?  I might have one.

.

Frank,   I'll buy and let you have it for a year if you will sort it for me.   I'll pay for the parts and beer.   This is my new restoration model,  cause the traditional one requires working three jobs.

Eddy,

How much to get rid of that horn?

https://content.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2020_07/55c27ce5b883ed9b14722ce689372e87d8897191.jpg.743f27cafbff1c8b9801660e3ac1a594.jpg" data-ratio="75.00" width="1200" src="https://content.invisioncic.com/r277599/monthly_2020_07/55c27ce5b883ed9b14722ce689372e87d8897191.jpg.743f27cafbff1c8b9801660e3ac1a594.jpg">

Quick and dirty, 75 bucks. The right way, 3500.

This 32 Ambassador Victoria sold for 84K back in 2014.    The 2nd one sold for 60k back at the JEM sale (I was gonna go and I didn't!)  back in 2003.   I'm thinking they are the same car.

alsancleJul 12, 2020

I'll pay for the parts and beer.

I had to retire, I'm honestly used up... and trying to finish mine.  A couple of years back, I would have been beyond stoked for the opportunity to work on a big Nash....or just sit behind the wheel and ponder the past history of that car

I have no clue on Auction expectations at the moment we are in, but my gut thinks it might go high.  Hope I'm wrong.

alsancleJul 12, 2020

Eddy,

How much to get rid of that horn?

Not that one or the mate to it on the other side....look at the factory Nash trumpets  "one's bigger and hangs lower"  LOL ( shame on me)

Ambassador on the 142" wheelbase.

http://www.nashcarclub.org/nccaphot/thirty/33_1197%20Amb.%20%20Brougham%204508.jpg" data-ratio="74.86" width="700" src="http://www.nashcarclub.org/nccaphot/thirty/33_1197%20Amb.%20%20Brougham%204508.jpg">

Advanced Eight Rumble Seat coupe.

Careful! Your'e are working yourself up!  .....MAYBE I SHOULD ADD SOME PICS ...LOL

alsancleJul 11, 2020

You need to admit this Nash at 35k is a worthwhile endeavor for somebody to sink their time in to.  

Solid condition 4 door convertibles (and of rarity too) do not sell for low numbers like 35K unless it is a total fluke and a half thing via audience/timing or .... of sale = hard to even get a late 30's Buick Special 4 door convertible (no offense to anyone with one) at that kind of money.  That is what the problem is - the car will go for really strong money and that then leaves no room to do what it needs to have done (ex. like figure out how it is not tan/brown/orange or off-pink/brown/orange).

Horn is fine (very period touch) - second trunk on the rack is not fine (just too much going on back there.

alsancleJul 12, 2020

Ambassador on the 142" wheelbase.

http://www.nashcarclub.org/nccaphot/thirty/33_1197%20Amb.%20%20Brougham%204508.jpg" data-ratio="74.86" width="700" src="http://www.nashcarclub.org/nccaphot/thirty/33_1197%20Amb.%20%20Brougham%204508.jpg">

Neat car - but, I would probably have a really dark wheel (perhaps Midnight Blue or even Black) on it so fast it would make your head spin.

edinmassJul 11, 2020

BOAT - definition: Break out another thousand! (BOAT)

BOAT - a hole in the water you throw hundred dollar bills in.......non stop.

BOAT- Second best day Of ownership is the day you buy it, Best day of ownership is the day you sell it.

I thought that was the story of Horses ?

edinmassJul 11, 2020

Unique KelseyHayes drop center with beauty rings missing. I made them 10 years ago with John...........add 1500 to the parts cost list. Plus buffing. Sandblast and powder coat wheels 2500. Left rear door is looking like a potato chip that’s why the handle and latch have issues......wood? Look at the exhaust pipe.......another 2500 to get it up to 2 1/4 inch correct with hangers. Tires and tubes. Shall I make a complete list? Don’t forget to add fifty bucks to throw the trunk in the dumpster! If you post engine compartment photos, I can keep the list going.

Realistically, I suspect the car has a lot of die cast chrome trim (same as many other 30's cars you and I have restored) and as you know (though other people may not), it tends to deteriorate over time and especially after replated - I suspect the door handle to be one of 10 plus parts with issues.  Equally, the 1,500 + 2,500, + 2500, + + + + are all things that you and I do in the first week of owning something - it is a lot of money to spend in a couple of days and potentially just the tip of the iceberg.  Sidenote:  Good point on the exhaust - the tailpipe diameter looks pretty small in diameter for any decent horsepower 30's car - I would get back to the car potentially needing a complete mechanical going through/rebuilding (good news though is after the mechanics are gone through I suspect Nash gave you a pretty good driving product). 

The Walter Miller/RM Auburn Auction Nash in question is from the Detroit area. I know the car well. It was one of the last cars Miller purchased just before his death. The prior owner used it regularly before his untimely death and it was sold very shortly thereafter to Miller. It is a good, honest and solid old car. If anyone has any questions about it, let me know. 

AJ, if you buy that Nash I have some authentic Nash Gabriel shock absorber fluid you can use.   

K8096Jul 15, 2020

AJ, if you buy that Nash I have some authentic Nash Gabriel shock absorber fluid you can use.   

Jason,  that is totally cool!!!   I almost it better than the car.

F&JJul 12, 2020

I had to retire, I'm honestly used up... and trying to finish mine.  A couple of years back, I would have been beyond stoked for the opportunity to work on a big Nash....or just sit behind the wheel and ponder the past history of that car

I have no clue on Auction expectations at the moment we are in, but my gut thinks it might go high.  Hope I'm wrong.

Not that one or the mate to it on the other side....look at the factory Nash trumpets  "one's bigger and hangs lower"  LOL ( shame on me)

Frank,   at least a dozen times a year there is a car like this that I will have my eyes on thinking a decent deal may happen.    It NEVER does.   I seem to have good taste in cars (if not friends) and that taste seems to be shared by a lot of guys.

My expectations are that it sells for close to 50k all in, or maybe more.   The Corona thing is a wild card,  but I can tell you that RM's all online Palm Beach auction at the height of the lock down did very well.

alsancleJul 15, 2020

I seem to have good taste in cars (if not friends) and that taste seems to be shared by a lot of guys.

My expectations are that it sells for close to 50k all in, or maybe more.

I tend to get too wordy, but I've put a lot of thinking in on this one car. 

I've hinted before that a few well funded buyers almost need somebody else to tell them what is high class....kind of like needing a Fifth Ave Clothier get you looking like you are a person with style.  

 If a person who is primarily into the pinnacle of styling of the snazzy upscale brands of the Depression's peak,  starts to notice  32 second series Nash by either finally seeing a smaller 80 series 32 in person, or owning one,....... that normally leads to the desire to hopefully day-dream of a chance at a 90 series conv,

I am pretty sure Walter Miller had a smaller eight 32 second series sedan before this one, and I can't help to assume he was also smitten by then wanting the top of the marque in 32 Nash?    I look in the Nash Club members-only lists of 32 owners, and there is strong evidence of people really getting hooked on only collecting multiple versions of 32 Nash 8 cyl models. (and the 33 8's). 

That type of person would definitely be very interested in this auction....low visibility guys who aren't known to attend typical mixed make sales.  On a smaller push of value, being it was owned by a noticeable long term respectable name in the car world, that will bump the bids.

I might have to eat crow, but I think the price will be far higher than what has been guessed so far. 

.

alsancleJul 15, 2020

My expectations are that it sells for close to 50k all in, or maybe more.   The Corona thing is a wild card,  but I can tell you that RM's all online Palm Beach auction at the height of the lock down did very well.

Correct (and also correct toward the statement of "or maybe more") !!!

I understand F&J's logic, and know strong off brand cars that tend to be good drivers and have decent lines have a shadow cult following. The car may be solid, as I take Motoringicons word for it. But to get it cleaned up, correct, and sorted, it's going to be expensive. It would chew through 40-50k quickly. I was factoring in the pandemic, the particular car, and guessing that latent buyers are tighter with their money than the whales. Also, I think the venue is the worst possible place to sell that car...........Auburn Fall Auction? That would have been one of my last choices. When Walter got sick, he went on a buying spree...........and in my humble opinion overpaid for every car he bought that I was familiar with......I also understand why he did it. So....that's my thoughts on why the car won't do well. Now that it's in writing, it will break 100k!

Lunch break, so I looked up current and non current Nash Member Roster for 1093's

There is only one "current" member owner, and it's in Europe with a collector who has premium 32 1st and 2nd series cars, some are quite rare.

then searching all, past or present, there are 6 listed, but only 4 have serial numbers to know they are not simply the same car changing hands over time.  The Roster does not list what year the person bought it.

The 6 includes the Europe one, Dave Mitchell is also listed as an owner, but his membership dates (start and end) is when he was sourcing many needed parts for a clients 1093?

Then the only 2 that have no serial number listed, shows Walter Miller,  and the other one as being in the club from 2000 to 2017, and from Michigan, which might be the one referred to by Motoringicons a few posts back?.  

We all know that not every single one was ever in the Nash Club, but I just wanted to suggest that if you "just had to have one", you cannot set a price estimate against a recent Auburn Auction sale like that maroon Auburn talked about on this thread.... It's simply irrelevant.  

BTW, I had earlier posted about an eastern USA 32 collector on the Nash Current Roster, and I mistakenly suggested he also had one,   I just looked at his detailed listing of sixteen 1932 Nash 8's,..... however, he has two 1083 shorter WB conv sedans, one super rare 1081 conv coupe, as well as a fairly rare 1071conv coupe, and... four second series Ambassadors!   You don't suppose he might have just a tad bit of interest in Miller's?

.

It’s always a random crap shoot. Age, timing, health issues, pandemic issues, location, color of thr car, condition of the car. Let’s be brutally honest. We all like  it and think it’s great, but in reality it can’t win a class at Pebble. Not too many whales buying cars that can’t get a guaranteed first in class. An at home talented restoration on thr car would be 225k, and in a top shop, 600 all day. The car Dave did and recently sold brought half the current restoration cost, and that didn’t include the car. Since  the sale was recent, one would expect anyone with a quick need would grab it. It ended up at a friends collection, a perfect home. That said, how many people with deep pockets want an obscure Nash. My particular interest is my father drove one during the war......and he met my grandfather buying axels for it in the junkyard in Springfield Massachusetts. (1943) He met my mother years later.......so a Nash is kind of a fun thing to toss around. And, for the record, my father called it a POS compared to the six Packard twelves he bought after the war. (For 75-120 bucks.) 

PS- if I’m gonna dump 600-700 k into a car, I think I would buy a correct, open Model J instead. The Nash is cool, but it isn’t anywhere near THAT cool.

Dear Mr. Wet Blanket,   If the car sells for under 50k all in,  and does run well,  and you can spend 10-15k on minor cosmetics,  then isn't that a pretty cool car for relatively short money?   There was one car that got the Pebble treatment (two if you count the Lester car).  I don't think that is gonna happen again.

alsancleJul 15, 2020

Dear Mr. Wet Blanket,   If the car sells for under 50k all in,  and does run well,  and you can spend 10-15k on minor cosmetics,  then isn't that a pretty cool car for relatively short money?   There was one car that got the Pebble treatment (two if you count the Lester car).  I don't think that is gonna happen again.

My numbers on the mechanicals are correct....and didn't include cosmetics. I thinkI would leave most of the cosmetics alone........and just do a wheel color change. I looked closely at that car.............remember, it's like a REO, nothing is readily available. And I see three times more than you do looking at it. I still like it, and recommend you purchase it, and send it to me to straighten out...........it's high up enough on my cool list to work on, but not quite as high as our current project. And to quote you from above......"if it does run well" , would you like to place a wager? 

edinmassJul 15, 2020

The car Dave did and recently sold brought half the current restoration cost, and that didn’t include the car. Since  the sale was recent, one would expect anyone with a quick need would grab it.

As I don't follow any markets, I did not know this, so I would agree on what I underlined above.

I also was thinking about it more this afternoon.  Maybe a guy who really wants a very nice one, but not way too nice to use,  might pass on the Miller one and wait for a cosmetically better survivor?

I give up thinking about what it might bring. 

F&JJul 15, 2020

As I don't follow any markets, I did not know this, so I would agree on what I underlined above.

I also was thinking about it more this afternoon.  Maybe a guy who really wants a very nice one, but not way too nice to use,  might pass on the Miller one and wait for a cosmetically better survivor?

I give up thinking about what it might bring. 

I try and figure out what else you can buy for the same money. The V-16 that sold in January was a great turn key car, from a world class collection, and could go on a tour the same day you bought it..........for a price in the mid 60’s. It’s apples and oranges as far as body style and platform, but to me the 16 is ten times more interesting and drivable than the open Nash, with no additional investment. Ones dollar goes much further today than in the recent past..........So if the Nash is worth 50 the way it sits,  I would find a bunch of other cars in the same price category more interesting and a better value.

edinmassJul 15, 2020

I try and figure out what else you can buy for the same money. The V-16 that sold in January was a great turn key car, from a world class collection, and could go on a tour the same day you bought it..........for a price in the mid 60’s. It’s apples and oranges as far as body style and platform, but to me the 16 is ten times more interesting and drivable than the open Nash, with no additional investment. Ones dollar goes much further today than in the recent past..........So if the Nash is worth 50 the way it sits,  I would find a bunch of other cars in the same price category more interesting and a better value.

I'm not sure it is fair to cherry pick a smoking deal and use that as a comp.  All in it was 72,800.  But to be devil's advocate,  the Nash is 10x better looking and I'm willing to bet they made 10x more of those V16 Limo's in 1930 than the Nash Conv in 1932.

If the Nash hammers anywhere near the Caddy I will agree with you,  but for the sake of this discussion we are talking approx 1/2 as much... say hammer around 35k.

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az20/arizona/lots/r0010-1931-cadillac-v-16-seven-passenger-imperial-sedan-by-fleetwood/830529

I flipped the Nash so we could compare side by side,  but only a Pierce Arrow guy would love the looks of the Caddy (and my apologies to the new owner - who got a smoking deal).

https://rmsothebys-cache.azureedge.net/8/a/5/b/2/8/8a5b2833aea27b5ec698665cab480bbd6333787c.jpg" data-ratio="75.00" height="915" width="1200" src="https://rmsothebys-cache.azureedge.net/8/a/5/b/2/8/8a5b2833aea27b5ec698665cab480bbd6333787c.jpg">

ahem.... speaking of "a" 32 Nash vs 31 Cad...  I was working on my 1063 front seats today trying to set up the best placement for me as driver.  Of course I had to use the drivers seat track adjuster to make sure my placement choice would allow a very tall person like my son, to drive it.

Well, I was pleasantly surprised that it has a deco, center front, simple spring loaded release handle that works slick/instantly.  But as I had to save money on building the 32 Ford, I used the 31 Cad V-12 seat(that came with the Nash) by narrowing it.  That Cad adjuster is out of Walt Disney World...as in mickey mouse. A old fashioned looking design T handle that you have to crank even more than a 30 day clock, and it's not easy when sitting in the seat.  (just attempting a little humor)

I know, I shall confess, I am a 32 second series Nash junkie.... and in all interpretations of that word  

I also agree the above Cad is not as stylish as the 32 2nd series Nash, but it's not really a fair comparison.  Many brands of 1931 were still the old boxy body, flat grille look of the late 20s, and a 31 Nash is no exception..   

Being a mechanic, I find the V-16 ten times more interesting. So the Caddy was 72, and the consensus is the Nash will hammer At 50. Add five for the sale, so we are at 72 for a sorted legendary turn key car, or 55 for a car that the minimum will need 10-15 .....tires, exhaust, ect. So, I see the Cad as a better deal. The Nash has a neat eight, but the chassis is rather short, and the body is a small batch built unit, not by one of the prestigious houses. But.......if the Caddy has a problem.............it’s a BIG hole to drive into.........now we wait and watch for entertainment. 

F&JJul 15, 2020

I've hinted before that a few well funded buyers almost need somebody else to tell them what is high class....kind of like needing a Fifth Ave Clothier get you looking like you are a person with style.  

Bravo!!  We need some well-heeled folks to save and properly restore cars like this so that we're not bored with only Cad 16s.

Ed, I'm just starting to grasp the bigger picture of what I think you are hinting to, as far as the old car world is rapidly "adjusting", if that's the right description?

yes, I know that the 2020 constant negative media bombardment as well as the resulting business failures, etc,  are playing a role right now, but wasn't the vintage car market showing a somewhat continuous drop in interest/buyers in recent years? 

If so, are we seeing the first signs of what might end up as a permanent and massive drop in pricing across all levels of collector cars?   I also would like to know if you see any younger people, let's say in their 30s to early 40s, actually even wanting any of these heavier types of prewar cars talked about in this thread?

As a blue collar hobbyist for 50+ years, I've relied on occasional flipping of much lower price stuff to support owning the cars I bought to keep forever, but I have really drastically changed my own resale valuations on anything considered as a medium to bigger project.  I now realize that they aren't even resaleable at all. 

A friend reminded me of this car the other day.   Sold at Simeone a few years ago for 18,700.    I'll bet most of of you can guess where it is going,  probably the number one collector of this sort of car in the world who will give it a great restoration.  I think it is an interesting comparison to a 33/34 Buick 90 Club sedan.   The two cars are practically identical in all respects except the Nash has a few survivors and there are decent number of 90s around.

https://images2.bonhams.com/image?src=Images/live/2016-09/07/24088595-1-36.jpg&width=960" data-ratio="66.67" width="960" src="https://images2.bonhams.com/image?src=Images/live/2016-09/07/24088595-1-36.jpg&width=960">

alsancleJul 16, 2020

I'm not sure it is fair to cherry pick a smoking deal and use that as a comp.  All in it was 72,800.  But to be devil's advocate,  the Nash is 10x better looking and I'm willing to bet they made 10x more of those V16 Limo's in 1930 than the Nash Conv in 1932.

If the Nash hammers anywhere near the Caddy I will agree with you,  but for the sake of this discussion we are talking approx 1/2 as much... say hammer around 35k.

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az20/arizona/lots/r0010-1931-cadillac-v-16-seven-passenger-imperial-sedan-by-fleetwood/830529

I flipped the Nash so we could compare side by side,  but only a Pierce Arrow guy would love the looks of the Caddy (and my apologies to the new owner - who got a smoking deal).

https://rmsothebys-cache.azureedge.net/8/a/5/b/2/8/8a5b2833aea27b5ec698665cab480bbd6333787c.jpg" class="ipsImage_thumbnailed" data-ratio="75.00" height="915" width="1200" src="https://rmsothebys-cache.azureedge.net/8/a/5/b/2/8/8a5b2833aea27b5ec698665cab480bbd6333787c.jpg">

Top does not go down on the Cadillac !!!

Top doesn’t go down...........who cares? Please give me an analysis of how many people drive with a top down.............99 percent of the owners don’t put them down........they don’t want wrinkels.. As far as aim concerned, I leave them down all the time. 

alsancleJul 16, 2020

A friend reminded me of this car the other day.   Sold at Simeone a few years ago for 18,700.    I'll bet most of of you can guess where it is going,  probably the number one collector of this sort of car in the world who will give it a great restoration.  I think it is an interesting comparison to a 33/34 Buick 90 Club sedan.   The two cars are practically identical in all respects except the Nash has a few survivors and there are decent number of 90s around.

1934 Nash AMBASSADOR EIGHT 1297 FIVE PASSENGER LWB BROUGHAM
Chassis no. 522564
Engine no. 522564

322 cu. in. Twin Ignition Valve-In-Head 8-Cylinder Engine
Dual Throat Carburetor
125bhp at 3600rpm
3-Speed Manual Transmission
4-Wheel Semi Elliptical Leaf Spring Suspension
4-Wheel Drum Brakes

*Nash's top-of-the-line offering
*Designed by Count Alexis De Sakhnoffsky
*Highly original and unmolested example from long term ownership
*Classic Car Club of America full classic status
*Opulent art deco styling with world class mechanics

https://images2.bonhams.com/image?src=Images/live/2016-09/07/24088595-1-36.jpg&width=960" data-ratio="66.67" width="960" src="https://images2.bonhams.com/image?src=Images/live/2016-09/07/24088595-1-36.jpg&width=960">

Rare car, good looking club sedan, pretty solid (but I bet some woodwork will still be involved), pretty complete (there will be a bunch of unusable stuff though that will have to be remanufactured/recast), takes a car like this to get you a good steering wheel/good intruments/etc to separate men from boys when all is said and done via restoration (I just helped a friend buy a car for 7K so they could get a stunning steering wheel - he will trade steering wheels and resell rest to end up with perhaps $500.00 in wheel allowing him to achieve wanted awards), good horsepower, and probably a few more good points that are not coming to me at this second - I would say this car would bring same price today too.   Unfortunately, takes resourcefulness and a labor of love and/or deep pockets for it to become an even 95 point car.  

edinmassJul 16, 2020

Top doesn’t go down...........who cares? Please give me an analysis of how many people drive with a top down.............99 percent of the owners don’t put them down........they don’t want wrinkels.. As far as aim concerned, I leave them down all the time. 

My whole garage - everyone of them is down for the summer (and 4 door convertible too) - and yes the tops are never the same after you put them down even once. 

I agree, putting the top down wrinkles the top!

edinmassJul 16, 2020

Top doesn’t go down...........who cares? Please give me an analysis of how many people drive with a top down.............99 percent of the owners don’t put them down........they don’t want wrinkels.. As far as aim concerned, I leave them down all the time. 

I like that you have your tops down on cars !!!  Most people never have the fun you are having either - there is nothing better than a well sorted 30's convertible for touring. 

alsancleJul 16, 2020

I agree, putting the top down wrinkles the top!

As mom would say - "we restored it once and we can restore it again, so lets go have fun." 

Right up there is "only a car, we have garages full of them."

And "art is for wall and cars are for the road."

John, Since I first met you, I knew you were a 1% er . Not in the definition of a Hells Angel, but in the world of ACD. Neither you, AJ, Orin, and a handful of others could ever be considered “normal” in any sense of the definition.

edinmassJul 16, 2020

John, Since I first met you, I knew you were a 1% er . Not in the definition of a Hells Angel, but in the world of ACD. Neither you, AJ, Orin, and a handful of others could ever be considered “normal” in any sense of the definition.

Laughing - a lot of people had to beat that into me.  It comes from my Mom's cousin who had a fabulous car collection matched to my parents (and all their car friends) who have a far different mentality to car collecting than most people.  And of course great friends like you !!! 

edinmassJul 16, 2020

John, Since I first met you, I knew you were a 1% er . Not in the definition of a Hells Angel, but in the world of ACD. Neither you, AJ, Orin, and a handful of others could ever be considered “normal” in any sense of the definition.

By the way, not to knock Sedans - there are some TRULY STUNNING ones out there (and they make wonderful tour cars too), but that said, 98% plus of them are things that I do not feel worthy of plowing serious time/money into and/or paying top dollar for - if going to spend it then spend it on a Convertible.   As you and I have discussed, I do prefer "Club Sedans" first and that is followed by "Convertible Sedans" (same enough concept in looks and yet top goes down).  And, I would take on another horrendously difficult restoration (or maybe even two) for a Sedan that really floats my boat (though, when I see rust and rotted wood it will take some serious motivation).

Note to self, do not install top.  It will lead to wrinkling concerns.

If you ask my dad he will tell you that all sedans are parts cars waiting for a place to donate.   You should have seen the two of us go at it when I made the mistake of buying a sedan.   The fact that it was a one off coachbuilt verified in period salon car made no difference to him.

As for tops,   any of the European "double top" cabriolets will never the look the same once you put the top down.  Not to mention they are ugly with the top down as it really only folds 2/3 of the way. 

alsancleJul 17, 2020

If you ask my dad he will tell you that all sedans are parts cars waiting for a place to donate.   You should have seen the two of us go at it when I made the mistake of buying a sedan.   The fact that it was a one off coachbuilt verified in period salon car made no difference to him.

As for tops,   any of the European "double top" cabriolets will never the look the same once you put the top down.  Not to mention they are ugly with the top down as it really only folds 2/3 of the way. 

As to your dad - yes, they are like that (get mine going on a passionate subject).  

As to tops - 100% correct.

Sidenote:  The Auburn has a 45  year old top on it that I am currently purposely destroying by putting it up and down on whims and leaving it down the bulk f the summer.  And in the back of the hall closet there is a large roll of proper mossy green with wexford backing Haartz yardage for it, binding, and  hydem, but the problem is that after I spend money for a convertible top I am much more cautious (but with Auburn I will probably just put it down at the upholstery shop and christen it more or less from the get go). 

edinmassJul 10, 2020

Take a close look at the car up for auction, I like it, and have inspected the Guyton car since the sale, as it ended up with a friend. Walter’s old car is on my want to own list. A quick back of the envelope calculation makes me think the number being tossed around is too high. I’ll guess 35k all in.........maybe.

Ed, I had several of Walters cars at my shop last summer  for work. I can give you more info on it if you are interested. The second trunk came with the car but wasn't on it when Walter bought it. I had a new exhaust system installed , cleaned out the fuel tank and other assembly for him. When it left here last July (2019) it went to a trim shop in Syracuse  for new interior. It had its original cloth interior  when it left. Its a very sold car, good wood but needs more work to make it a driver. It will make a super driver with some more effort spent on it. The motor runs very well. Walter liked to call it the "Duesenberg of Kenosha".

Mike, I’m up north till mid week next week. Will give you a buzz then, thanks.

F&JJul 16, 2020

 I also would like to know if you see any younger people, let's say in their 30s to early 40s, actually even wanting any of these heavier types of prewar cars talked about in this thread?

I've been helping a friend lately with his just purchased 1920 Cadillac....a totally unrestored car. I'd guess he's in his 40s (I think he told me how old he was but I've forgotten). Its a good example of someone who likes old cars but isn't the slightest bit interested in the "competition" aspect of owning them. He's not someone who would be likely to participate in a forum like this and I'm sure that if he bothered to go to a car show it would be a local one but, even there, he isn't at all interested in post-war cars so I'm not sure the local shows would be of interest. They aren't to me...

You can't define a market on a single person or even several people but my feeling is that there is interest out there but that the prices have effectively shut those people out. Heck, I'm shut out of the areas I like best. So, though it will be tough on the people who thought they were going to retire on the profit from selling their 55 Chevy, a drastic drop in prices may be good for the overall car hobby.

JV PuleoJul 18, 2020

I've been helping a friend lately with his just purchased 1920 Cadillac....a totally unrestored car. I'd guess he's in his 40s (I think he told me how old he was but I've forgotten). Its a good example of someone who likes old cars but isn't the slightest bit interested in the "competition" aspect of owning them

JV PuleoJul 18, 2020

the prices have effectively shut those people out. Heck, I'm shut out of the areas I like best. So, though it will be tough on the people who thought they were going to retire on the profit from selling their 55 Chevy, a drastic drop in prices may be good for the overall car hobby.

I hope you are correct that we will get back to seeing prewars being driven besides just when going to a show. As you admit, I too have been shut out of the market a few times in my 55 years of interest starting by tinkering (engine swap) at 13 years old!...but those times made me take junk as a way of at least hoping to drive one, and that leads to actually learning how to do everything yourself and acquiring more tools. 

When you sent me a copy of the book you wrote of years ago, I was thinking how cool it must have been to drive a car that early to school.  I did drive a 56 Chevy B/A 2dr ht with a 348 tri-power to school a few times in late 60s, all built from junk that nobody wanted, but I thought it was cool.

The metal shop teacher was ticked at me one day and I must have deserved it, but he said "you'll never amount to anything".  Well as in big money, or skills, or happiness, or WHUT?  I still use the skills he taught us back then.  I;m broke again at 68 and can't afford a semi modern car, so I am now living the daydream I had as a 10 year old kid that was building AMT plastic models of Hotrods and thinking I was going to drive one all the time.  It finally happened, but "by circumstances", and now I honestly don't want a newer car anymore.

Pic taken right this moment; I ran errands early today, and left it out as I might go out for a ride in early evening when the weather cools off.  No tools, no spare, no jack, no cell, no triple A and...no worries either. I built it, it will get me home. Not SBC, it's a 1955 Olds Rocket. My first engine replacement at 13 was on a 1957 Olds 88,... reliving my past?

Btw, driving it as a primary car for 2 years so far, I will say that the amount of people who wave or give a raised fist when they see it coming, has multiplied by 10 times since all the media hype started this year...it makes people forget it, even if just for a short spell.  Cars can't do that by sitting in a garage.

And no AACA, I did not "RUIN a 32 Ford"...here it was when I got it: (it left the factory as a 5w coupe, and when I got it, it wasn't even good for parting out) I'm headed back to the shop again right now to work on my 32 Nash...a spare car in case the Ford breaks or wears out.

F&J, finally - glad to see you share the 32!  Very nice!!  

alsancleJul 11, 2020

So the Tom Lester car is visually identical to this car but with a bigger engine?   They do look the same.

AJ, as you have so much interest in big Nash..... I think I may have stumbled onto some very cool history of what very well could be the Lester Ambassador..

I was going through a huge list of old Nash Times Newsletters which are saved and available to NCCA members online via PDF files.  Just this morning I ran across "a letter to the editor" with 2 photos taken in the 1940's, in the May/June 1974, Vol. 5 Number 3 issue. 

The author's father bought one in 41 as a used car from some guy in Amsterdam, NY,  and the son wrote that he had "a feeling it must still be out there and hopes to see it again".. He gave his childhood memories of it being used daily from 41 to 46 until the worm gear failed.  Then was heartbroken when Dad sold it for junk in 53 because he couldn't find the parts.(in NY)

Then the junkyard resold it one month later to a guy in Utica to restore.  The Dad took him back to see the Nash for the last time in 56, then Dad lost the contact number.

The letter was copied in the old typewriter days into that issue and a misprint says the story is about a "1953 Ambassador", but if he states Ambassador, and it being a 4dr conv like the 2 pics prove, it must be a 33 and not a 32,......If true, then I'd bet this is the car that eventually ended up in the sawmill pole barn that I saw many decades ago.  The 1940s B/W pics show body and fenders in the same light color, not two toned.. The Son said it was Tan with red upholstery.  The one I saw was all Tan, but I don't have memory of interior.  Has to be it? 

Here's the odd part, for some reason, the son still had the engine number, and posted it!  (Last known owner of the Lester car was in Canada, but has since dropped out of the club). It would be cool to prove it's the same car just from history perspective?

Long read, but I know you'd have interest. I don't have a cell, otherwise I would have done a screen shot of the 2 pics.

F&JJul 22, 2020

AJ, as you have so much interest in big Nash..... I think I may have stumbled onto some very cool history of what very well could be the Lester Ambassador..

I was going through a huge list of old Nash Times Newsletters which are saved and available to NCCA members online via PDF files.  Just this morning I ran across "a letter to the editor" with 2 photos taken in the 1940's, in the May/June 1974, Vol. 5 Number 3 issue. 

The author's father bought one in 41 as a used car from some guy in Amsterdam, NY,  and the son wrote that he had "a feeling it must still be out there and hopes to see it again".. He gave his childhood memories of it being used daily from 41 to 46 until the worm gear failed.  Then was heartbroken when Dad sold it for junk in 53 because he couldn't find the parts.(in NY)

Then the junkyard resold it one month later to a guy in Utica to restore.  The Dad took him back to see the Nash for the last time in 56, then Dad lost the contact number.

The letter was copied in the old typewriter days into that issue and a misprint says the story is about a "1953 Ambassador", but if he states Ambassador, and it being a 4dr conv like the 2 pics prove, it must be a 33 and not a 32,......If true, then I'd bet this is the car that eventually ended up in the sawmill pole barn that I saw many decades ago.  The 1940s B/W pics show body and fenders in the same light color, not two toned.. The Son said it was Tan with red upholstery.  The one I saw was all Tan, but I don't have memory of interior.  Has to be it? 

Here's the odd part, for some reason, the son still had the engine number, and posted it!  (Last known owner of the Lester car was in Canada, but has since dropped out of the club). It would be cool to prove it's the same car just from history perspective?

Long read, but I know you'd have interest. I don't have a cell, otherwise I would have done a screen shot of the 2 pics.

That is very cool Frank.   My Nash club membership has expired,  but maybe we can get someone on here to get find it and post it for us.

alsancleJul 22, 2020

That is very cool Frank.   My Nash club membership has expired,  but maybe we can get someone on here to get find it and post it for us.

Hey.......pry your wallet open with a crowbar and rejoin the club............your getting tighter and tighter every year.......I thought that would be an impossibility! 

edinmassJul 22, 2020

Hey.......pry your wallet open with a crowbar and rejoin the club............your getting tighter and tighter every year.......I thought that would be an impossibility! 

Eddie,   you know the issue is my mail room manager who is responsible for paying my club dues.  

alsancleJul 22, 2020

but maybe we can get someone on here to get find it and post it for us.

here is the exact link to that story.  Because it has /garage/ in the url, I think non members will be blocked as that term is the members only files online.

http://nashcarclub.org/garage/tnt/tnt1974v5n3.pdf#Page=4

Hammer: $37,500

Cadillac FanSep 3, 2020

Hammer: $37,500

My July 10th post said 35k......and I was abused for it.............about 6 percent low.........not too bad.

edinmassSep 3, 2020

My July 10th post said 35k......and I was abused for it.............about 6 percent low.........not too bad.

Wait til you read what

the pierce arrows brought.  between $8-15k hammer
 

Cadillac FanSep 3, 2020

Wait til you read what

the pierce arrows brought.  

I know both cars......they brought more than they were worth........I valued the 35 at 7500, and the 36 at 9-12k. I have seen both in person, and been over both cars. Walter was very ill when he bought them, and paid way too much money for them. 

THERE IS NOTHING MORE EXPENSIVE THAN A CHEAP CAR..........

EXCEPT A CHEAP CAR IN VERY POOR CONDITION................