Classic Era Peerless

Here it is after Tom washed it.  Jeff can confirm but I believe this car is getting a ground up somewhere in NE.  Maybe the owner can update us.

This is definitely a cool club sedan.  You can count the number of known eight cylinder cars on two hands.  There is maybe 2 or 3  convertibles.

The car is owned by my best friend who lives near me here on long island, it went to a shop in NJ and is still there. Lots of bad wood, some sheet metal needing replacement, looked much better then what was under the surface. Amazing car though and is being done "right" . He would like to find an extra hubcap or two. I gave him a trunk rack for it . A large car with great styling and proportions. The same body that was made by Hayes was shared with the Marmon Big 8.

1925 Peerless Eight-67 with Equipoised 90-degree Vee-Type 8, owned by Mr. Stanislaw Waligora of Poland.

1 of just 9 or 10 1925s known to have survivied, and 1 of 3 or 4 Model 8-67s. Only two models in 1925, the 6-72 and 8-67(unless you count the holdover 1924 Models 6-70 and 66).

This Town Sedan cost $4,250 in 1925. Full Classic.

2013 Hershey Car Corral purchase.

Good idea of alsancle to create this thread. Nice of him to say something good about me -- but there is so much I don't know about Peerless. I do know those Standard 8, Master 8, & Custom 8 Sakhnoffsky designs are pleasant to look at. Tom Laferriere seems to have a penchant for Peerlesses: he's sold a '29 and a '31 and owns a '23....the "Fearless Peerless" speedster.

There are more eights around than you might think. The KPAIE figures suggest 8, 12, and 8 of the Standard, Master, and Custom 1930-1932 straight 8s survive, respectively, out of about 3,900 built; and 7 of the 1929 straight 8s, out of about 1,100 built. Yes, convertible, inline-eight Peerless cars are kind of scarce....there being two out of these 35 in existence which I know of (3 if you count a car that burned in the Thirties and hasn't been heard of for 30 years......and 4 if you want to count that one for sale in 2015 out in Sonoma County, California.*). Remember, something like 34,000 Peerless Eights were sold during the V-8 years, also. The Green Dragon here on the AACA Forums has three, a 1916, a 1917, and a 1919.

* Discussed on 11/3/2015 on the "It Seems To Be 1930 Peerless Week" thread on the Peerless Forum. The car is a driveable Standard or Master Eight Coupe running a Chrysler Spitfire straight-eight someone modified 50 years ago into a lakebed runner. SCTA rules said you could only compete with a streamliner or a roadster, which could explain why the top was removed.  

A special Weyman fabric body.  At least one of these was sold to the President of a milk company in Cleveland.  There are pictures of both a club sedan and an open rear quarter sedan.

A special Weyman fabric body.  At least one of these was sold to the President of a milk company in Cleveland.  There are pictures of both a club sedan and an open rear quarter sedan.

An intriguing look at what a Classic Peerless garage find might look like if you were to happen across a '28 Peerless Model 8-69. Someone in Florida named Dave picked this up recently. Not going past the podium at Pebble Beach anytime soon --- but an extremely rare find nonetheless.

One of the last, maybe the very last, Peerless built.........a 1932 Custom Eight built for Cleveland Chief of Police George Matowitz.

Note the siren front and center, and the twin spots. I wish this one had survived. 99% chance it didn't, but I found its Car serial Number plate and got it to one of the two Custom 8 Club Sedan owners. Chief Matowitz's boss? Elliot Ness.

photo from the Bruce Young Collection

Here is a 1931 Peerless Model "B", or "Master Eight" owned by someone in Ontario, "Spud" on the forum.

A.J., I know you like to see Classics not commonly at collector car events. The owner of this one told me he went to a CCCA Caravan and a fellow participant told him he had driven thirty of the events, and this was the first Peerless he'd seen. The car is unrestored, except for some repainted pinstripes and re-chromed bumpers.

Thanks for posting Jeff.   That may have been on of the very few or only times a Peerless has been on a CCCA Caravan.

This was recently sold on the forum.

This is the only 1931 Peerless Master 8 Cabriolet in existence.

Sporting it's original factory Straight 8 this is a fully restored to concours quality motorcar. Classified as a 'full classic' by the Classic car Club of America. Prior to my purchase, this wonderful car was in the same family for many decades and very well cared for. Extremely reliable and very powerful yet whisper quiet. This is a wonderful driving car. Mechanically it needs absolutely nothing, just enjoy. The paint job is near flawless.The chrome is excellent, and the operation of the lights, roadlamps and fender lights; as well as the horn and speedometer all work they way they should. No leaks and positively no rust. It has a fully trimmed leather rumble seat and factory golf club door. The Trico wiper motor was just rebuilt and works great. It has new actual Mohair carpet. I've owned over 100 pre-war classics and I've never seen a pair of headlights this big [13" diameter] No top. French mascot does not accompany purchase. Even the running board rubbers are new. And yes, the door panels are leather as well. Some of the photos I took earlier in the year do not show the twin ivory pin stripe I had professionally done last most. This added accent really makes the paint job 'pop' and follows the raised reveal the entire length of the car. This was a very expensive car in its day. No disappointments here. You'll never see another one, because like I said, there is only one.

4155 lbs. $2095 price new 125" wheel base

Continental L-Head 322 cubic inch Engine

beautiful car

jeff_aJan 13, 2017

Here is a 1931 Peerless Model "B", or "Master Eight" owned by Mr. Linkletter up in Ontario, "Spud" on the forum.

A.J., I know you like to see Classics not commonly at collector car events. The owner of this one told me he went to a CCCA Caravan and a fellow participant told him he had driven thirty of the events, and this was the first Peerless he'd seen. The car is unrestored, except for some fender paint.

Back in 2012 , there was a big donnybrook about this car on the "What Is It?" Forum. Someone spotted it on a trailer on a dirt road and couldn't ID it. It was identified as possibly being a Mercedes, Cadillac, Packard, or Stutz. The cormorant radiator ornament threw them off, I guess. The topic was "ID this car I saw in the Badlands at the end of September, 2012" and ran from 10/20/12 to 11/11/12. 

I see you correctly pointed out what the car was Jeff :).  

A.J.,

Nice shot of that 1931 Peerless, considering it was moving. Since this discussion of the mystery car I have met the owner at Gilmore and Hershey car shows and seen the Coupe up close. What's funny is that the owner has all 3 of The Three Ps and this one is rarer than his Packard and Pierce-Arrow. I sent you an email with photos of them.

A 31 Custom Eight Factory Photo.

I think this Peerless Corporation photo is one I've not seen before. What's not to like.

There are some pictures of this Peerless floating around on tumblr/flickr/pinterest. I don't know who took it or when, but it's a car Ralph Cartonio had when he passed away in 2015. It's a 1932 Custom Eight with a 322 c.i.d. Continental engine; cabriolet body by Fisher or Fleetwood, Ralph said. No cataloged Custom 8 Cabriolet in 1930-32, though it was possible to order the Master Eight and Standard Eight as a Cabriolet. Original custom-ordered body? Rebodied? It did take First Place in a car show in 2000 -- but has not been in circulation besides that.

Neat car.  History is obviously very important!

Windshield fram does not look like Fisher or Fleetwood, photo is too dark to get a good look at the lines. Best guess is it was a batch body built by one of the smaller Indiana companies.........probably could be any one of a dozen shops.

Thanks for your comments, Ed. Is there any possibility the Peerless  pictured 3 posts up is the one you said you tried to buy as a young man? You mentioned it on the 3rd page of that Pierce vs. Packard thread. I know next to nothing about the history, as I have discussed with AJ, but it seems to have been squirreled away for a long time in the south end of Maine.

Another picture of the car mentioned above from The 2000 Frozen Custard Car Show, badgoat.net:

It's possible, the car I knew as a teen was dark green with a Hartz top, very original. Someone is posting in the technical forum, looking for info........

The first straight eight Peerless --- a 1929 8-125 7-Passenger Sedan --- photo: The Creative Workshop, Dania Beach, FL

2016 Concours d'Elegance of America at St. John's --- owner: Daniel Johnson

Production: 1,154

7 Known

It's a very nice car. I had a chance to look it over extensively at the shop and the show. Rare and interesting car. The owner is  justifiably proud. 

alsancleApr 13, 2017

Neat car.  History is obviously very important!

RE: The Purple & Ivory Cabriolet Depicted on Posts No. 19 and 22

I have come up with a theory to explain this Peerless, A.J. Thirty years ago there was a sale of ten or more Peerlesses at the Stelford place in Illinois, where the Cord prototype was found. One car, to whom it went I don't know, was one of the twelve 1931 Peerlesses and ten 1932 Peerlesses on my list.* I have it written down as 322 c.i.d./120 h.p./Custom Eight/"Rolling Chassis, body fire during Prohibition Era", but just a few body parts missing/Film footage suggests it may be a 2-Pass. body style: possibly a Cabriolet with r.s./138" w.b./Motor number: 13K 3130/Car serial number: unknown. Maybe Ralph Cartonio bought it, brought it back to life, had reason to list it as a 1932, showed it once (in New Gloucester, Maine), and few have seen it since. If we see it at a show somewhere and the above Motor number turns up, my theory would hold a little more water, but Ralph was a skilled body and paint man and had a lot of 1923-1932 Peerlesses go through his shop.

* KPAIE

Photo: vancouverexpress and conceptcarz

1930 Peerless Custom Eight owned by Ele Chesney. Next to the Green Dragon factory race cars and the 4-car prototype fleet of V-12 and V-16 cars in 1931, this is the most written-about and viewed Peerless. The good public relations is partly due to concours and museum showings in Ohio, New Jersey, Florida, and California in the last 40 years; plus it being reproduced as a diecast model by the thousands in 1:18, 1:24, 1:27, 1:32, and 1:40 scale(there was even a limited edition release of a Thomas Kincade "Painter of Light" version) . 

My dad and I took this Peerless out for the weekend when Leo gephart had it for sale in perhaps 1978 - very nice car and was pretty unrestored at that time (excepting an amateur repaint - same colors) - interestingly it had wire wheels on it then and very nice tire covers (a well optioned sedan all the way around) but the wheels and hubcaps were pretty marginal, so I am guess the woods were in better shape or ?). 

Photo: vancouverexpress and conceptcarz

1930 Peerless Custom Eight owned by Ele Chesney.

From Coachbuild.com:  http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=830&t=15237

Jeff, did you know about this one?

Great photo...I see it´s just been put up on coachbuild.com. I have not heard of De Ley of Holland before, nor seen these Peerless photos. Almost a convertible victoria look, and the somewhat bulky top-down look reminds me of some of the 1930s German cars. The swoop of the bodys rear half and the trunk design are very unusual. Many other body details are different - but the bumpers, parking lights, and sidemount clamps are consistent with 1930s Peerlesses. I´ve entered De Ley into the Peerless Coachbuilders thread on the Peerless Forum already, company number 45.

I looked on the web a lot and couldn´t find a match of the location at first. It somewhat resembles a photo on p. 2 of the latest Peerless Motor Car Club newsletter, The PEERLESS CO-OPERATOR(Summer/Fall 2017) entitled ¨24 ème Salon de l´Automobile - Paris 1930¨. I looked some more, and see by the building details(an exact match) it is the 1930 RAI Amsterdam Autosalon, which seems to have had Minerva, Peerless, Panhard et Levassor, Ford, Opel, and Durant, plus many other exhibitors. Durant was still turning out new models in 1931...till January anyway.

Thank you very much, A.J. I´m thinking that if one of these turned up in the Schlumpf or Mahy collections, you might sell your baseball cards to get some cash. Have any Walter Big Train Johnson or Babe Ruth rookie cards? (1907 card with the misspelled name would be a good one)

The reason the top is so bulky is that many of the European coachbuilders, and especially Sindelfingen used a double top.  So when you were inside it looked like a hardtop.  Generally padded to such an extent that you can't see the top bows from the outside.

The Germanic look of the top always seemed a bit heavy, but that was the style over there. Glad to see you have it out and about!

Thanks Ed and A.J., for the talk about the German/Dutch/Austrian leanings in convertible top design. So, you probably both feel that the two cars in the foreground are your kind of Peerless, despite their very likely non-existent-ness in the present day; what with the coachwork, European Salon history, and cabriolet body style. In 1927, Peerless told their dealers that 20% of sales were foreign, so I would be surprised if any of the cars in this Peerless stand went back to the States. I don´t know which models -- but I´m leaning toward the fore cars being Master Eights with 125¨ wheelbases and the big battleship in the back being a Custom Eight with 138¨, like this:

image from the British site motorbase.com,

reproduced from original Peerless Motor Car Corporation sales brochure

P.S. to John_Mereness: I think this is the color scheme someone was trying to replicate in the car you drove mentioned 5 posts up(post # 28), 40 years ago. A.J. wants to hear what it drove like when you and your dad took it out for the weekend. Mike West was going to tell us about a ´32 Master Eight he drove flat out after a boisson with the late motorsport journalist Brock Yates, but he hasn´t yet. 

Another picture of a Weymann Peerless.

Quite an eye to spot that as a Weymann. I´m not sure I would have without some text. There is a subtle Weymann look to the rear quarter, though. Do you think they were calling this a closed rear-quarter sedan or a club sedan? I´ll guess it´s a photo from a Bulb Horn or a CCCA Bulletin....where´d you find it? Having gone to the high school next to the CIA headquarters, my image analysis says it´s a 1931 photograph. Maybe the Indianapolis paper covered Weymann America production once in a while.

Jeff,

I should have listed the source.  Bad on my part.  It came out of a CCCA bulletin,  I think late 50s or early 60s.  There was no text of any consequence or I would have included it.

A.J., I´m thinking this is what a Weymann body would look like right out of the shop. Kind of a dull finish and padded look. What do you think?

http://rvccb.be/souvenirs/4-balade-des-generations/dsc_8723/

"I´m thinking this is what a Weymann body would look like right out of the shop. Kind of a dull finish and padded look"

Not necessarily.  My 1931 Rolls Royce has a Weymann body by HJ Mulliner that is aluminium skinned.  According to paperwork avalible from that time, people were rejecting the padded skin look so they simply metal covered them instead but still used the Weymann system of metal connectors on all the wood frame joints to allow movement without the squeeks.

I think you could get Zapron in different levels of finish, but it probably would not have the sheen of a painted surface.  As David, some of the Weymann bodies, especially later were finished in Aluminium.

jeff_aMay 19, 2017

Photo: vancouverexpress and conceptcarz

1930 Peerless Custom Eight owned by Ele Chesney. Next to the Green Dragon factory race cars and the 4-car prototype fleet of V-12 and V-16 cars in 1931, this is the most written-about and viewed Peerless. The good public relations is partly due to concours and museum showings in Ohio, New Jersey, Florida, and California in the last 40 years; plus it being reproduced as a diecast model by the thousands in 1:18, 1:24, 1:27, 1:32, and 1:40 scale(there was even a limited edition release of a Thomas Kincade "Painter of Light" version) . 

------------------------------------------------------------------------- ////////// ------------------------------------------------------------------

jeff_aMay 19, 2017

The stately car above has passed to a new owner, after the passing of Ele Chesney of Toms River, New Jersey. Robert would probably appreciate any stories about this Peerless Custom 8 any of you have from seeing it at events around the country. I remember at one time it was on loan to the Crawford Museum in Cleveland, OH, when I first saw photos of it on a French automobile website 18 years ago. Another time, I read a good article on the car in NJ Monthly and the end of the story featured a full-page color photo of a Packard V-12, by mistake. Oh well.

Here is an improved version of the '32 cabriolet photo:

A roadster with functional external landau irons suggests an aftermarket recreation.  Have yet to think of a single example in that 1928-'32 period, but someone might recall one.   That drop offset in the cowl-side molding shows up on the 1930 Pierce-Arrow Group B roadster and sport phaeton.  

alsancleFeb 24, 2018

Another picture of a Weymann Peerless.

This may be the same Weymann, different background, company promotion, from the rather detailed autogallery.org.ru site:

 

Always thought the later Peerlesses were second tier to Pierce and Packard;  good cars, but coasting on their earlier reputation, as Packard would later on, Pierce saved from such ignominy by being unable to afford to launch their 25,000 planned $1,200 base price Hayes-bodied 1938 juniors.   1929-on Peerlesses used Continental L-head straight eights, 322-ci in '29's 8-125 and 1930-31's Master and Custom 8,  246.7-ci in the 1930-31 Standard 8.   These Continental engines were used in many other assembled cars of the time; Du Pont, Locomobile, Elcar, Jordan, Graham-Paige among them,  just as Lycoming inline L-heads were used in others, including Kissel, before E.L. Cord bought the company and they were only used in A-C-D products and aircraft, the latter Continental continues propelling to this day.

 Has anyone published a serious comparison of Continental and Lycoming straight eights?  Which had the edge?  Any SAE papers from the day,  more than simply hearsay and opines?

 Count Alexis de Sakhnoffsky got around, not only styling the 1930 Peerlesses, but with Ray Dietrich, a consultant to Packard in the early '30s, aiding the Detroit firm's design chief, Werner Gubitz's sculpted, finished look that aided by Packard headed by ex-Hudson and cash register execs since the early teens who knew how to milk tooling of refined engineering gave Packard the cash reserves to launch their company-saving junior in 1935.

  But let's focus on which had the edge, Continental or Lycoming flathead straight eights.

Peerless was keeping good company offering a Weymann sport sedan on their 8-125:

Su8overdriveAug 17, 2024

 Has anyone published a serious comparison of Continental and Lycoming straight eights?  Which had the edge?  Any SAE papers from the day,  more than simply hearsay and opines?

  But let's focus on which had the edge, Continental or Lycoming flathead straight eights.

If you can wade through all this to find if the subject was covered, please report your findings.

Technical Papers - Publications - Publications (sae.org)

58L-Y8,

   Thanks for comparing the Peerless-Weymann and the Duesenberg side-by-side. It was the fourth model introduced in 1930, something of a custom-bodied offshoot of the Master 8(same 125" w.b., anyway). Perhaps some of the 1,500 chassis' intended for Master 8s were shipped to Weymann's facility for assembly instead of the Hayes body plant in Michigan [or having Hayes bodies shipped to Cleveland].

   No one knows how many were built. 2? 20? The entire records collection was donated to the Cleveland Public Library in 1946. A look for these Peerless archives there by Richard Lichtfeld, the President of the Peerless Motor Car Club, about 2008 turned up none of the 770 bound volumes detailing automotive history spanning 1896-1946. He said some of the material would have been stamped "Peerless Library". A story written in the Twenties said the library was visited by many automotive historians researching the earliest days of the car industry because of the motoring publications going back to the 1890s.

• Lost?
• Misplaced?
• Sold?
• Discarded?
• Donated to another facility?
  
  This collection would have data  on these Weymann cars if it could be found, I think. So far....I have recorded 51 coachbuilders for Peerless [there's a thread about that over on the AACA Peerless Forum], and personally, would love to get more  information from the Primary Source.

   The first straight-eight Peerless was the Eight-125, their most luxurious 1929 model. These were available in Coupe/Victoria Coupe/5-P Sedan/7-P Sedan/Limousine in 130" & 138" w.b. To confuse matters, 2 or 3 hundred 1929 Eight-125s were carried over into 1930 when build dates or sales were after 9/1/29, the model year change. About 1,100 built -- 6 to 8 known at present.

jeff_aAug 19, 2024

58L-Y8,

   Thanks for comparing the Peerless-Weymann and the Duesenberg side-by-side. It was the fourth model introduced in 1930, something of a custom-bodied offshoot of the Master 8(same 125" w.b.). The first straight Peerless model was the Eight-125, their most luxurious 1929 offering. To confuse matters, 2 or 3 hundred Eight-125s were carried over into 1930 when build dates or sales were after 9/1/29, the model year change.

Jeff_a:

The Weymann sport sedans on the Duesenberg J is named the "St. Cloud", couple variations of the styling details but generally with visorless, low windshields, rectangular side windows and the distinctly defined, low-set rear top bow break for the rear surface. Being Zapon-fabric covering on wood, survival rate is low, though Duesenberg J's do.  Are there any of the Peerless Master 8 Weymann cars still extant?  Weymann-American in Indianapolis did eventually aluminum panel some of their earlier sport sedan styles on Stutz DV-32.

Weymann American, Charles Terres Weymann, Weymann bodied, Flexible body, Stutz, Duesenberg - CoachBuilt.com

Steve

No - I've been on the lookout, but no known survivors of the 1930 Peerless-Weymann model.

• I know of a couple of '32 Peerlesses that came up for sale here on the AACA Forums in Condition 5, a dealer found at the finest car museum in Missouri(Auto World Museum in Fulton); but they were a Deluxe Master Eight Sedan and a Custom Eight Sedan and were traditional factory (Hayes) bodies. They were full Classics, the car broker in Texas wanted $10K and $20K, no takers here, went overseas and disappeared from the face of the earth.
• I have a confidential source that may have a big Thirties Peerless under wraps....but an unknown model and just a lead, really.
• so no
• it is possible to recover these things.........saw a pic of a Bentley in Europe that had clearly been re-done with fabric. But when you have a 7-figure car, that may not be a Big Huge Deal.   (2023 image from Royal Veteran Car Club of Belgium)

jeff_aAug 19, 2024

saw a pic of a Bentley in Europe that had clearly been "re-Weymanned" with fabric.

From what I have read, it was not uncommon in the ‘teens and ‘twenties for a wealthy UK car owner to change the body style on  his Rolls, Bentley, or other upmarket car.

The same sort of behavior was applied to the ‘thirties Rolls, Derby Bentleys, Alvis, Daimler and others - but for a different reason. In the first case, it was a car owner upgrading his motorcar for his own use. In the second case, it was to deal with the increased value of an open car versus the limited value and exhorbitant costs associated with careful saloon restoration.

I have read that there are far more Derby Bentley drophead coupes than were originally manufactured.  Part of this is driven by the penchant for British body builders to include a sunroof on their saloons.  These invariably leaked, rotting the wood in the upper body, particularly in the A pillar region.  Restoring  a mod-‘thirties saloon with rotted wood is a serious challenge.