daVinci motor progressing

Shawn,

You mentioned somewhere previously that the DaVinci had Timken hydrostatic brakes. Does it have the original bladders? If so, how are they holding up? If not, where did the replacements come from? Are the bladders the same size as Stutz used? As I may have mentioned before, I had some bladders made and have the brakes working on one of my Stutzes and was just curious as to whether the Davinci implementation was the same.

Steve Pugh

interestingly a Stutz owner was in attendance Sunday (Jim Ray 28 BB Roadster) and we looked over the brakes and discussed your and my previous communications about the hydrostatic bladder. He couldnt find them and we left under the impression that this car in fact has juice brakes, which would make it even more unusual considering it was made in 25.

Shawn

one more thought.. Booth kept this car into the 50's when he donated it to the school I bought it from, and he did modify it as time progressed (it is 12 volt now) He could have modified the brakes to hydraulic at some point. we are just starting to think about disassembling the body/chassis, so it will be a month or so before I have more insight into the brakes.

Shawn

How does your DaVinci single sleeve valve motor operate compared to the Argyll which also was a single sleeve design and performed it's function with a corkscrew type motion rather than up and down?

it is an argyll motor. Booth licensed this design for USA production from the inventors in Scotland, later after he didn't go ahead Continental licensed the design but never built any that I am aware of. It is the Burt/MacCallum design or something like that, see my website for pictures of the innards in a couple of days, right now all that is up there are the press photos from when the car was built.

it's a really interesting motor with dual carbs, dual exhaust,remote oil drain plug,lots of polished aluminum and chrome, aluminum rods and pistons and crankcase, I think it has 10 mains. each cylinder has its own little head, theoretically they could be individually serviced, virtually every wire/supply line in enclosed from the elements. very pretty.

I'm excited if you cant tell!

Shawn

Shawn:

Your DaVinci sounds incredibly interesting. Any idea how many were built and how yours survived? I am looking forward to seeing some photos of that engine and the rest of the car.

Good luck with the restoration, you will no doubt find many challenges ahead with it.

Bill

Albuquerque, NM

Shawn,

The wheel bladders (on Stutz, anyway) can't be seen unless you remove the drums. The master bladder is encased in a large metal cylinder about the size of a coffee can with a large piston at one end. The actual bladders may not be viewable but the hoses entering the wheels should be. They are large rubber hoses about 1 1/2 inches in diameter. I can send you pictures this weekend if you are interested. In any case I am interested and will follow your progress.

Steve Pugh

it is a one off prototype. see my website at www.4stargallery.com/mycaraddiction for the short story.

Shawn

Steve,

mine are not like this at all. will post a photo on my website by monday

Shawn

Shawn, Very interesting project, nice to see that you have a lot of documentation as well. The radiator shell looks a lot like a Minerva, or a Diana. The shift linkage must be rather odd with the lever so far forward. If you deside to design a body rather than construct a replica of the original, I'd vote for a roadster with a hood that is at least 6-8 inches longer. Nice to know that there are still unknown finds out there. Good luck with the project!

thanks for your kinds words. I am leaning towards a speedster or roadster body but will keep the original hood/grill/cowl/dash. no matter what. One of the really inovative things is that this car sits on a 106 inch wheelbase, really this car is all motor with it installed. Booth designed a wild rear springing system that actually allows the car to spring on the rear chassis tube versus the rear axle, thus riding like a 126" or more wheel base car. thats why he chopped the body to expose this. Notes from him indicate he felt this is the real engineering marvel of the design.

Somewhere in the bowels of the university the original blueprints are stored. Unfortunatley the guy who was in charge of the car retired years ago and is in poor health and cant remember where they could be. Hopefully they will surface at some point.

The first year or so the car will be displayed as a "show chassis" on the show circuit, and then we will run it back around with the completed body later.

One thought is to fabricated a roadster body that is nothing but a shell and will "butterfly" off to show the rear end at shows, or make the rumble seat removable or something like that.

this is a long term project, but hopefully the chassis will be done in time for the Summer GC's assuming I can get them to let me bring it (as display only of course)or get it approved as a full (or modified)classic in time. the research involved in that will take some time, but should be fun.

Shawn

this got me a little excited so i started taking everything apart and we are now ready to lift whats left of the body. there was actually still gas (or something)in the tank. you would think after 20 or 30 years of something sitting unused with a less than tight cap it would have evaporated by now. hmm wonder what this stuff looks like. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

anyway...I think this could move relatively quickly since the goal is a drivable chassis. everything seems to be in great shape. the car only has 5400 miles on it.

the brakes are in fact hydraulic.

the biggest slow down here could be picking a color! HA!

any ideas?

Shawn

Shawn, While we're on the subject of sleeve valves"sans soupapes silencieuse"The nicest Argyll I've ever seen had an "engine turned"aluminum body by Jarvis of Wimbledon,one of the many British body Mfrs who flourished in the 1910-1930 era. My repro Vauxhall body is a similar one. It is extraordinarily easy to craft {or have crafted} a body composed of aluminum panels and few finishes have the eye appeal of true engine turning{extraordinarily popular circa 1915-1930} which is essentially done with a drill, felt pad with abrasive and either accurate measurement or a wood jig and clamp arrangement measured at equal intervals.

hmm that's a thought. for the interim period we have to fabricate something to assimilate a cowl/dash with some seating, if it is that easy to do engine turning that sure would look cool at least for the firewall,dash.

do you have any pictures of argylls? my internet research turned up the factory itself (quite an ediface) but no pictures of cars.

shawn

I will dig out some obscure British car books from the '50's that have a couple of pictures of Argyll's that I will shoot and post for you.

Is the daVinci a CCCA approved Classic?

not yet. it is so obscure it isnt automatically on their radar screen, so will have to be individually nominated. which I plan on doing shortly.

Shawn

Hey Shawn, here is a pic of a 1921 15.9hp Argyll from The Vintage Car Guide published in England in the '60's, I have another pic or 2 but must dig the books out of the attic this weekend.

SHAWN : While going through my car library I found something that might interest you. Here is some history on your DaVinci. Late in 1925 the machine shop of Louis Chevrolet built the prototype you have. It was completed in 1926 and driven to New York City by Booth to have the body installed which was designed by him and built by Fleetwood. The car body went through some modifications made into a convertible then had the rear section removed. After Booths ceath in 1954 the car was kept at the old family estate Cranbrook until 1976 when Mrs. Ellen Booth gave the car the Northwood Institue. The institue operated two campuses the car went to West Baden Ind. In December of 1976 Leslie Henry former curator for the Henry Ford Museum inspected and appraised the Da Vinci at a value of $47,500. The records at Northwood show that your car was driven on the track at Indy and recorded an average speed of 32 mph. As of 1979 while the car was still at Northwood the odometer showed less that 6,00 miles. If the article from which I got this infomation from is of any interest to you CONTACT ME.

Yep, that's the history of my car in a nutsell, and it still has less than 6,000 miles on it!

What article are you referring to? I have several including one that ran in Cars and Parts I beleive. Sure I would love a copy.

To update the story, I have on its way to me copies of the blueprints for the 4 bodies Booth designed for this chassis as well as a bunch of other stuff courtesy of the Detroit Libraries excellent cooperation.

We have removed the remnants of the body and are readying the chassis to start accepting parts again!

shawn

Shawn: I am sorry that it has taken so long for me to reply. The article you have from CAR & PARTS is the same one that I came across in my library. I went to your web page and I know exactly where you got your pictures from. Sorry to waste your time.

Hey, no waste of time in my book! When one owns a rare car like this, one is alwasy looking for any little tidbit of info! luckily for me, this is an extremely well documented car due to the efforts of the Booth Family to preserve the work of JSB.

Shawn