1932 Packard

I am considering buying a 1932 Packard convertible coupe. Does anyone have any advice on what to look for? Thank you

In response to Terry's question (he's asking US what to "look for" in a "32 Packard coupe"....)<P>Terry..you didn't give us enough information about your needs and requirements for us to advise you.<P>First of all, you should know that there are Packards..and there are PACKARDS ! As with the "proudct line" of most car manufacturers of that era, there were modest automobiles best suited for putting around city streets at low speeds. The cheaper Packards make very nice cars for that purpose. There were and are people of every era of auto mfg., who require something more. Something special. Something unique. Something so far superior to the ordinary car of its day, that we called it...yes...a CLASSIC ! While the definition of what constitutes a classic car has been broadened to meet the needs of those who want to sell cars, or have bragging rights at cocktail parties, we who were in this Club from the early years KNOW what a REAL classic automobile is. In the Packard line, I would recommend a SUPER EIGHT (384 cu. in) or a TWELVE 440 cu in. These cars (assuming you find a well-maintained example) were designed from the start to meet the needs of the demanding motorist who required something exceptional in quality of finish, handling, and performance. Their superior handling, power, and quality will give you rich rewards in personal satisfaction. That is not to say a smaller-engined Packard is a bad car - it is just to note the obvious.. you get what you pay for. If you plan on actually DRIVING the car and enjoying it as a piece of "mechanical art", pick something with GUTS !

Peter<BR>The car is a 1932 Packard 509 convertible coupe. I understand that in Packard terms this is not much of a car, however I like the way it looks. What I was looking for was info about potential problem areas as I am not a Packard authority.

Terry~<BR>You have absolutely no reason to apologize or think of that car as being 'not much'. Packard built a range of fine cars during that time, all of them engineered, styled and built to a very high standard. There was no lesser or greater Packard of that era. There were Packards with more unique coachwork, Packards with larger or more complex engines, yes. But all contained the essence that made Packard a legend and kept it at the pinnacle of the American and international auto industry for many years. Although you could have paid more or less for a particular car, all Packards of the era are variations on the same theme of excellence. Super 8 and Twelve guys may now line up to flame me. I hope you get the spirit of what I'm saying, though. <P>Whew! Now on to your detail question. <P>There are two general approaches to this car. One is to verify its authenticity and completeness as the year/make/model it is being presented as. In other words, are all the parts of this car correct; i.e, engine, transmission, springs, wheels, was it always a convertible or did someone alter it from a coupe, instruments correct, battery box, seats, upholstery material, bumpers, wiring correct, accesories, paint type, correct radiator, tire size and type, exhaust system, gear shift knob correct, steering wheel, etc. I could go on but you get the idea. <P>The other part of the inspection is its condition and function as a vehicle. A key point on cars of this era is the condition of the wood that was used to frame the body. It won't be easy to check but rotten framing is very expensive to replace as it requires the complete disassembly of the car. Is there rust or evidence of shoddy repair work. An open Packard is relatively expensive on the used classic market and there is greater incentive for chicanery in terms of repairs and/or provenance. A complete title history and photo documentation of restoration (if conducted) is almost essential. It not unknown for a car to be assembled from a bunch of parts. <BR>Does it drive without flaw. Do the brakes function properly. These were cable brakes and when setup properly are superb. When setup poorly they can be dangerous. On my '34 they work very well. <BR>Was the owner mechanically astute and sypathetic to the needs of the automobile or was he a skilled polisher? Was the car used regularly or merely admired? Does the clock work? Is the engine virtually silent and vibration free when running? Does it leak fluids? How old are the tires? If it has a thermostatic shutter, does it open as the engine warms? Do all the instruments work? And on and on........Feel free to ask more questions, Good Luck!

Bill<BR>Thanks for your help. I'm afraid my previous post was a tad sarcastic. I would never apologize for liking a certain car. It is always a matter of personal tastes. I was looking for help in those areas that might be peculiar to 32 Packards.

Terry <BR>Although your sarcasm is crystal clear to me now, at the time it whizzed right past. Sorry for the lecture. <P>I'm trying to be as helpful and specific to your question as possible. I think you are asking to identify problem areas and things to watch for with that particular model year. If that is your question, I've not been too helpful. I'll try again. <P>In my opinion, Packard model year changes during the approximate period 1928/1934 happened at a much more glacial, evolutionary pace than many of their contemporaries. Packard were quite conservative because the bulk of their clientele were conservative. A revised cylinder head may have been introduced one year, a slightly different carburetor the next. Styling was always tasteful and elegant but did not lead the industry. Hypoid rear end gears were a breakthrough, and the Light Eight in 1932, although an obvious change, was more of a styling/marketing maneuver than a mechanical specification change. <P>In short, a 32 Packard presents no more or fewer hazards than one from adjacent years. <P>As I said before, my largest concerns would be to verify that what equipment is supposed to be present on the car are there, and similarly, what equipment is present is correct for the year/make/model. The rest is the same inspection one would conduct on any used car; i.e., what condition is it truly in? <P>To research the details of any particular year, I find that the shop manuals are quite useful, as is the book by Beverly Rae Kimes about the Packard cars and company. Kanter and Motorbooks, et al have these and other books. <P>Hope this helps. Bill

Bill, I appreciate the help.

To Bill P: Your statement about Packard Cars no matter what model is well put. It seems part of the problem within the Packard ranks are some people who own the so callled senior models. Mr. Hartmann is a good case of this. Unless its a senior model anything else is to be looked down upon. Some people seem to forget like everything else in this world we buy what we can afford. So that rules out the senior model Packards. Mr. Hartmann ownes a 1938 Packard 12, which he aquired back in the 50's for less than $100. From what i understnad this man has maintained the car mechanically, but failed to do much else to the car. IE a good proper restoration. I think its out of line for him to tell somebody what to purchase. It seems to me that he shouldbe concerned about doing a proper restoration to his own car firt. Before talking down a car that someone might be purchasing. I assume that on Mr. Hartmann's part that he lacks funds and the skill to do a god quality restortion to his own vehicle.

I agree 100%. When I read the pompous answer I got to my original question my first thought was-if the Packard guys are all like this I wouldn't even consider buying one.

As the Packard phrase of the era put it: <P>"Built by gentlemen for gentlemen." <P>I like to think that Col. Vincent and Mr. MaCauley would have it no other way.

To Bill P and Terry: If you goto the CCCA web page, and look at thier list of approved classics. You will fine the following under Packard all 1925 TO 1932 PACKARDS SIXES AND EIGHTS ARE CONSIDERED CLASSICS. Mr. Hartmann's clouded vision of what a classic is, limits his knowlegde about automobles.

RE: "Packard Levels of Superiority"<P>Sorry..guys...aint my fault. I wasnt even BORN when Packard was in its 'Golden years". The decision to make a Packard Super Eight a faster car with larger brakes than a Standard Eight...is NOT my fault. Please dont blame me. The decision to make a Packard Twelve even faster, with even LARGER brakes, and more luxurious fittings, is NOT my fault, dont blame me. To suggest that Packard did NOT give each purchaser his money's worth, at that level of cost, illustrates a very disappointing lack of knowledge of what Packard was all about ! The sad fact is, "all cars were NOT created equal". The funny thing to me is - you can buy a closed Packard TWELVE like mine in pretty good condition, for MUCH less money than a "junior" Packard ( SIX or ONE TWENTY) open car. I remain unclear at what a Packard "509" is, but again, I would need to know more about what your motivation for wanting a Packard is, before I could advise you intelligently on what to buy, and what to look for. Obviously, if you have little interest in the actual nature of what a Packard really IS, but just want to impress people, by all means spend a little more money, and get a "Junior" series Packard open car. If properly restored, it will give you much more satisfaction than the average car OF ITS OWN PRICE CLASS. However, if you are seriously interested in what Packards and the Packard Corp. were all about, and arent that interested in what the average self-appointed car buff thinks, my suggestion is get a Packard Twelve or Super Eight in good condition, in one of the less popular body styles. You will find rich rewards in personal satisfaction in having something so vastly superior in quality, performance, handling to the ordinary old car of its day, you will understand why we called these cars "classic", and ignored lessor cars. Again, this is NOT to depreciate the lessor car. ANYONE who has an old American car of ANY era in ANY price class can be proud of what it is, and what it represents.

I just read this horrid exchange. The point of old car clubs, to me, is assistance with your car's restoration and upkeep. Not convincing someone else what car he should or should not buy, or why yours is beter than his. So - if you like the car, great. A junior Packard is still a very good car, and the Standard Eight was an expensive vehicle in its day. And join the Packard Club - most people there have been very helpful. The 509 was the convertible body style in the 902(Ninth Series) Standard Eight series. There's a lot of club support, and many mechanical parts are shared with the Light 8 (Shovelnose). The mechanics of the car are not problematic, although the earlier comment on Packard's conservatism is true - the engine is very well engineered, but hydraulic brakes were still a few years off.

Now I remember why I let my membership in the CCCA lapse years ago.

Unregistered User CAL: I am sorry you let a few "self proclaimed experts" run you off. Over the years I have been a member of several different car clubs. I have learned that no matter what make of car you have from a Model A to a Classic Packard there will be those who presume to be the expert on what is, or is not, a "desirable car". I learned to not listen to those types and seek out and listen to those who have something worth hearing. I have always sought out and bought those cars that bring me personal enjoyment regardless of the opinions expressed by "the desirability police". One thing I learned early on is that those who are quick to tell you what is, or is not, a desirable car, will never include anything that they own in the undesirable classification.

Terry-<BR>I think you probably know my position on all this. I've expressed my opinion in every way I know how; in several different threads, or postings or whateverthehell they're called. I've given up trying to shovel crap against that tide. <P>Here's my personal experence. One of my cars is a 100% original 34 Packard 1100 sedan. I absolutely love that car. It has wear and tear here and there but it is straight and totally complete right down to the little padlocks on the sidemounts. The paint is faded and you have to look to see the original striping. The clock works and I don't think the rear carpet has been trod on more than five times in sixty years. <P>Anyway, I was at a car show a couple years ago, quite a fancy show with some heavyweight classics in attendance. There were maybe 8 or 10 pre-war Packards along with mine, all in a row. We got there fairly early and watched most of the others whisper onto the field, followed by much feather-dusting and last minute polishing. (Another reason I like the 34: no polishing required). <BR>Ours was like the thorn in the rose bush but I was surprised at the attention it got. People looked at it, smelled it, admired it, talked about it and made our day very enjoyable by their enthusiasm. <P>The point is, get a car, any car, one that you like, and have a ball with it. All the rest is just BS.

Since my original post I have talked with quite a few people about the subject. It seems that the holier than thou attitude is pervasive in the Packard ranks. I have an aquaintance with a junior Packard that is ashamed to talk about it because so many Prickard guys have put it down. Made my mind up for me; if I buy it I won't join the club.

Bill<BR> I absolutely agree. We already have several cars and we love them all. If I do decide to buy the Packard I will love it too. I just can't make up my mind between it and a pre 15 car right now.<BR>Terry

Terry If you want a nice old Packard at a reasonable price call me I have a 1936 1400 sedan original paint car, runs great ,low miles ! $10,000 Mike West 716 346 4395

Terry,<BR> I've just read all the above--- as a Packard owner, driver and lover as well as a long-time member of the CCCA, let me just say that our Club, like all others, is made up of 99% wonderful people, and 1% pompous fools. It doesn't take long to sort them out. But do NOT consider not joining us simply because a charter member of that 1% decided to once again illustrate his ignorance and insensitivity to his colleagues. I can assure you that they are easily avoided on any of our Club activites. I, for one, would love to meet you and appreciate your fine Packard. Join us, you'll see just what I'm saying. . .